A view of new wave chaos

[Azrael69]

This is my first post but i think it will be a good one. We have come along way since Ospare and Crowley. Ever darker down the energy of Chaos and threw the heart of Eros herself. But with this new wave of Chaos we have seen that Chaos stands above the rest being the only one that i have ever seen actually work.
Chaos is not relying on some Ancient deity to come and save the day, instead we rely on our selves. Realizing that we hold the power. With the idea of sigils we have crated a world of our own. But we know all of this this is nothing new. What is new is that we can go forward with Chaos make it the number one occult truth.
With the idea that there is more to magick than sigils ond charging. More like an understanding of how it works.. I myself have set in many a dark basment wondering on the darker reaches of space. And i have come to a conclusion on how the sigils work so well.
I have thought on the theory of strings. The idea that everything is on some sort of wave of sound and that when we put our energy threw our sigil into the reality we change that wave of reality and make it our own. There is a movie called "What The Bleep do We Know Down The Rabbit Hole" ( I believe that ever Chaos magi Should watch it) That proves that simply observing something can change what it is no matter what.
That goes to prove that magick is all depending on our view point on how we interact with the reality. The Christians say that our minds our finite i disagree i believe we can create the whole world or destroy it with a simple belief or thought. i will post more threads to clarify this better but the is the better of it. please tell me your views of it.

[Odin]

the new magick that that seems to be the magick of the day is Chaos Magick but this seems that it is the magick of irresponsibility where the and the "new " magicians just do what they feel is the right thing to do with the use of sigils just to see what they can evoke or invoke and after the act is done they just walk away without banishing what hey have created

the Magi's of yesterday have worked with the energies and the techniques of rituals and are still being worked out today and the effects that people seem to thing that just because the energies that are worked with are all fine and dandy because they are Angels but these energies are just as dangerous due to he fact that a name might be mispronounced and a different deity can be invoked

this new magick that they talk about is just the ego of self doing what they feel is right for them and the stroking of their own ego as that.

People feel that just because the rituals that have been practices for many years that you and I put together are old hat just might be but we should have learned from the mistakes from the more experienced of what the lack of respect for the craft can and will be caused by the lack of responsibiliy

[redhand]

I have to say that it is not Chaos magick itself that is the magick of irresponsibility, it's the practitioners who think Chaos Magick makes them insta Mages!

[Odin]

oh Red you always come across with the right words

me to long winded

[Azrael69]

i suppose i still have a lot to learn on the subject of chaos but it is a system that can be interpreted many ways. basically what i'm trying to say is that if what people say is right than history will repeat itself and we will all rely on magick once again to explain everything even science. And i still don't believe in the powers that be maybe a source but not someone who watches over us the power of the gods is us.

[Lokia_Zos]

I'm guessing Azrael might be new to the occult world. Well, welcome.

Firstly, if you want to get into String Theory, read some more on it and also pay some mind to Vir Sapiens post. It's pretty clear and accurate as the theory goes.

About Chaos Magick moving beyond Austin Osman Spare, I really don't see this happening at the moment, nor do I see it ever happening. This is a pretty broad statement to make, as Chaos Magick does leave room for defining things yourself and I sincerely believe that one persons explanations on "what is happening?" can be very much valid for them, but possibly not someone else.

But "what is happening?" There is somewhat of an objective reality, a flimsy and disgusting one that is only beautiful when we decorate it with other peoples various "realities", and a true work of art when we develop our very own original meanings.

I believe that what is happening is just this, we have a subconscious that I feel is little explored and understood. It is something we share, this one subconscious, and something that is individual and unique. This is the origin of most creative and spiritual work, and actually feeds and creates a reality in existence. Both the statement that all these gods and power are all in our head is as valid as saying Gods and spirits have an existence that is very real and active in the world.

Also, Spares influence on Chaos Magick is thrown around a lot, and I can definitely see it. However, it seems like it's more about techniques than ideas (and primarily his influence is seen in one single technique:Sigils). Peter Carroll did write a bit on The Alphabet of Desire, though his origins of this were quite different from Spares. I'm not sure how much has been written on the Death Posture by some of the big names within Chaos Magick. The words Zos and Kia, and the ideas behind them are largely left unexplored.

Plus Chaos Magicians do seem to love scientific theory, probably because of the influence of Crowley who himself loved science. Spare on the other hand found science as loathesome and as hateful to the self as religion. He saw art as being far superior to science, and blamed much of the world's ills on belief that wasn't self originated (even if those beliefs were supported by scientific evidence.) Science has a tendency to negate itself, and is fine and dandy outside of the occult. In fact, I used to read all I could about any Scientific theory, Super-string theory being a favorite of mine. But my experiments of the subconscious and what has worked the best for me has negated that, and for me at least science is a big no no in my practice of sorcery.

[Gazeeboh]

Chaos Magick is dead. It died in the 90's.

It killed itself, sadly, by way of its own definitions.
Now we just have some new dogma, some new systemic method.
Do step A, followed by step B, arrive at point C.

But at it's heart, Chaos Magick was just supposed to be a model. A little toy doll on which to put a new hat or shirt. Some blank slate on which you were to place your favorite asthetics. Just someone saying do what you want it will work out fine.

It won't evolve. There is nothing new. New to us, perhaps, but nothing new.

[redhand]

Interesting Point Gazeeboh, wasn't the whole idea behind Chaos Magick to free ones self from dogma in the first place?LOL

[Enlilki]

I dont massively see any title/style of magic as being that great, chaos, white, black, shaman, luciferian etc.

Spiritual/religious type beliefs can be held seperate but at the end of the day it comes down to energy when it involves magic (personal belief).
The yoda style of force, chakra, aura.... whatever anyone wants to call all the variations that come back to energy..

Servitors, Gods, Thought forms, astral beings etc... what are they made of? even us, how about the elements?

What makes everything happen is the ability to manipulate and weave it into what you want it to do, for good or bad purposes... sigils and any other props to me are more a superstition or focal point for concentration.

My reply is somewhat of a long winded version of what Lady touched on.

[Azrael69]

the basic point i was trying to get on was that magick can be explained by science.

[Enlilki]

It seems possible. I think it might have it's limits though..

[Lokia_Zos]

Magick explained by Science. Frankenstein Monster. Damn you Crowley.

[Azrael69]

Well isn't chaos magick based on science any way i mean it is based of the chaos theory right. So it does prove that magick works with science. To long people have neglected magick and to long we have kept it secret. Its time for a change.

[Gazeeboh]

Chaos Magick is not based off of Chaos Math or Theroy.

Science, at least in modern day, modern world understandings, does not explain magick. It doesn't even concern itself with magick. In fact, magick is a taboo in the science world. Most people consider themselves atheist, enlightened, educated, and above such ass backwards ideas such as religion and especially magick.

Quantum theroy gets thrown in here a lot these days. While the findings of such disciplines are very interesting, they are far from proving anything in terms of magick. Simply, we take these scientific findings and apply them on a more philosophical level to magick. Correlation does not imply causation, especially in this case.

All we have is our personal findings and research. This is true in every single level of your existence. There is no world outside your own head. Even if there is, it gets run through your biology. None of us share the same experiences, but rather get a sense of it. None of us share the same world, but rather get a sense of it.

Times are not changing. If you go run around screaming about magick you will be shunned or put in a instituion (this has happened to people I know, she also had her kids taken away.) We have two trains of thought now, two consensual realities. One is Monotheistic traditions and fringe religions and the other is Material Scientific world view. Good luck in fighting those, they have very powerful memetic technology and can destory you via mind control and thier devoted legions. So, mums the word ok?

But, yeah Redhand, Chaos Magick is silly now. It became a solid thing. It has definitions. It is this, but so much more. Everythingnothing. Herethere. The less said the better.

To sum up, Chaos Magick is

[dragonus18]

I believe that chaos is the pure will of the universe itself, relying on every single thing in it as an influence, down to the last electron, and even further, and in groups of things, such as an organism, or cellular system, or groups of atoms, of different elements, forming molecules, in solutions, etc. And that in this new era of magick, we shall see chaos in some of its truer and more clearer forms, although it will be ever-changing, due to the large impulse of new influences, that now realize they are able to influence the universe as a whole, transcending the universe into a gigantic array of spiritual and physical predicaments, people creating worlds out of nothing, groups of them working together as a whole to spontaneously get the universe to bend reality, and test its limits.

[ocultlove47]

science wont ever be able to explain magik,because science is limited by our own understanding and knowledge which is many times flawed,scientific theories proved right or wrong every day and dont forget theories are theories "what if's".Dont forget magik implies much belief to not only thought and self control.
I really believe that normal thinking and conscious is quite limited so with your normal thinking patterns you wont be able to explain magik ever thats why meditation is important and achivment of superior states of thought.
P.S:this is my first post :D and english is not my native language so pls forgive my msitakes :D.
.