Threefold law

[Dreamer.]

I have been thinking recently of the ‘Threefold Law’. This states that if you do a good act, it will be returned to you threefold and if you do something evil it will be returned back to you threefold.

I have decided this is not true at all. People considered evil can be very successful and happy in life and people called good can be failures and miserable. There is no cosmic law of the universe counting our good and bad deeds. There is simply a reaction for every action and this reaction can be both good or bad.

I think the law of attraction is at play when we do magick. If we do black magick and expect something bad to befall us then its far more likely to happen since we've already created it on the astral plane if you like. It is our own expectation that attracts evil towards us and not an actual law of magick.

This is my theory and is as always open to constructive criticism, so what are your experiences in this area? Have you ever done black magick and have it returned to you threefold?

[VIRAL]

The threefold law is b.s. for children. you should read my thread called "karmic nazis". Here is a poem I wrote on the subject.

Do what you will

before the life is gone and missed
remember that in it exists
no good or evil, only choice
and mine is freedom, hear my voice
there is no evil, and no sin
for your salvation look within
nothing to fear but fear itself
the powers do not need our help
through agony and ecstacy
we must hold on to liberty
a lesson learned from this world's school
is "do what you will" be the rule

[NachtSorcier]

Do what thy will has been used and abused to suit justification for ones who want to use it as an excuse. Frankly I am sick of it.

I agree with both the OP and this statement. In my experience, the "Threefold Law" is a complete misnomer. I suspect that it was Gardner's way of keeping his coveners from using magic to manipulate others...perhaps a few of them still suffered from "Christians are evil" syndrome. He wrote in the Ardanes:

"That none shall use the art in any way to do ill to any.
However much they may injure us, harm none. And nowtimes many believe we exist not.
That this Law shall ever continue to help us in our plight, no one, however great an injury or injustice they receive, may use the art in any way to do ill, or harm any. But they may, after great consultations with all, use the art to restrain Christians from harming us Brothers, but only to constrain them and never to punish.
To this end men will say, 'Such a one is a mighty searcher out, and a persecutor of old women whom they deemeth to be witches, and none hath done him harm, so it be proof that they cannot or more truly there be none.'"

Clearly old Gerald still had the pre-witch liberation mindset. It doesn't take a genius to see why so many NeoPagans have a very similar mindset that manifests in behavioral changes meant to make the Pagan community "look good," as in "Oh, we don't do that, it's not like we're devil worshipers."

In any case, what we can all agree count as evil deeds - needless murder, rape, petty theft, and so on and so forth - are products of mental illness and of, as some put it, "Mommy and Daddy didn't love you enough."

Any rightly-raised person in their right mind can look within and see that such extremes are wrong no matter what. It's the gray area, as it were, that we have trouble with. That is where "do what thou wilt" comes into play - deeds and so-called "lifestyles" that some people see as wrong, but don't really hurt anybody. That is the way I see it, anyway. Take homosexuality for example. A gay man or woman might live happily the way they want to without hurting any living soul, yet some will still point the finger at them and call them a sinner.

In any case, I gave up the idea of "Threefold Laws" ages ago and keep a sharp eye on the Law of Return instead - cause and effect make much more sense to me than does a cosmic system of rewards and punishments. I fail to see how any religion which claims that the Gods are neutral can say that those same Gods choose to reward or punish human actions.

[kleet]

This is my theory and is as always open to constructive criticism, so what are your experiences in this area? Have you ever done black magick and have it returned to you threefold?

No.

For the simple reason I have never wanted to do black magic. It's one of those "why risk it?" points.

Why risk 3-times the payback? Why risk the payback?
To coin a word I don't really like ("karma"), I tend to think that karma sorts out things done with malice. And the Universe (or Ain Soph if you're going that far into the spiritual/astral side of things) knows. You can't trick it.

I feel you can't do something almost-bad to cause someone to do something bad to you so they get the payback since the Universe sees what you did there.

It doesn't explain Evil, of course. But I guess Fate (another thing I don't have faith in) and "what comes after we have shuffled off this mortal coil" come into it at that point.

[JDAndrews]

My own personal view attributes it to the idea that, with energy, like attracts like. If you send out positive energy, then you become a bit of a beacon for it. Same goes for if you send out enough negative energy. I don't feel this is any sort of "payback" to what you may do with the energy, but simply a side-effect, as it were. I think that anything beyond that is self-induced. If you do a curse, and you believe that you might get some sort of karmic backlash, then you will indirectly cause that to happen to yourself.

[Dreamer.]

Your replies have been intelligent and have made me think :)

I sort of wanted to be a little controversial to provoke a good response but i should point out now that i think many things which are considered 'good' should be encouraged and many things which are considered 'bad' should not be encouraged but for entirely different reasons than the accumulation of good karma. I don't believe there will be any afterlife judgement but I do think doing negative magick hinders a persons relations with others and as a result is bad for themselves.

[uranus]

Nothing like thread necromancy to get a good discussion!

The three fold law is indeed bull. It is based on a flawed understanding of the concept of Karma, which is, simply put, what you take with you in life. When you do something, such as giving alms to the poor, you are doing something considered positive and that goes with you as you feel positive about it. If you murder someone, nine times in ten most people regret it and then that goes with you. People can feel that energy, even on a subtle level, when you do not forgive yourself especially, there is always something about you. Now, with Yoga and similar transcendental practices you "eliminate karma". You learn to forgive yourself for the bad and to draw on the energy of the good that you have done eventually transcending the concepts of good & evil & similar dualities, realizing it is the concept of dualities that caused the idea of sin etc.

The error in the Threefold law is that it fails to recognize that magick follows the laws of nature & that it comes from modern traditions & not from actual traditional teachings. It was a way to keep people from performing black magick because one of the reasons people will come to magick is self-empowerment & wish fulfillment. They want to feel powerful, they want to feel "evil" or whatever.

Most schools of magick, especially the traditional schools, teach you the transcendal forms of magick first so that when you have a better understanding of magick you won't just be using it to hurl curses & possibly hurt innocent people such as when Anton La Vey unintentionally caused the death of Jane Mansfield.