Linking the Major Arcana with the Runes

[S33k3R]

Just wondering...anybody got any insight into correlating the 22 Major Arcana with the runes.

I know that in theory the two systems don't really overlap, but Edred Thorsson's book, Futhark, a Handbook of Rune Magic has a table that links the two...except his suck. Like linking Fehu with the Tower...Ansuz with Death?...WTF? How the hell that works is beyond me. One or two of his associations makes sense, like Linking Gyfu with The lovers...actually thats the only one that makes sense.

Now I'm sure that this isn't an amazingly original idea and that somebody here has done more than have a random game of pin the donkeys tail.

All insight most appreciated.

[VIRAL]

Ehwaz with the lovers, reversed Ansuz with the fool, Iewaz with death. If I knew more of the tarot cards and their meanings, I could tell you others.

[redhand]

This can depend on your overall understanding of the Runes and the Tarot. I use Edred Thorsson's correspondences myself as I don't agree with Handel's or the Norse Tarot deck. This is based on understanding from the Rune Poems.

Fehu - The Tower
Ur - The Priestess
Thursaz - The Emperor
Ansuz - Death
Raido - Hierophant
Kenaz - Chariot
Gebo - Lovers
Wunjo - Strength
Hagalaz - World
Naudhiz - Devil
Isa - Hermit
Jera - Fool
Eihwaz - Hanged Man
Perthro - Wheel of fortune
Algiz - Moon
Sowilo - Sun
Tiwaz - Justice
Birkano - Empress
Ehwaz - Lovers
Mannaz - Magician
Laguz - Star
Ingwaz - Judgement
Dagaz - Temperance
Othala - Moon

[VIRAL]

I don't think Uruz, the wild raging ox, would be the priestess. Perhapse that's Fehu. Maybe Uruz is the tower, or something in the club suit. And Thurisaz is supposed to be the rune of the devil, not Nauthiz. Anyway, I don't think you will find an accurate table of correspondences unless you make one yourself. I don't know much about tarot but I know a lot about the runes, so I will try to make one for you.

[VIRAL]

Fehu - fehu is female, perhapse it is the priestess. It also means "wealth"
Uruz- Strength
Thurisaz - devil/ war
Ansuz - Hanged Man
Raido - Chariot
Kenaz - sun/ star
Gebo - gift
Wunjo - A rune of good luck or acheiving your desire.
Hagalaz - tower
Naudhiz - perhapse not the Devil. nauthiz means "need" and is also a symbol of poverty, but it is also a rune of the lower realms.
Isa - Hermit
Jera - Means year and is a symbol of time.
Eihwaz - Death
Perthro - priestess or Wheel of fortune perth means "mystery" and is a symbol of a cup. It is feminine.
Algiz - I really don't know. Algiz is a good rune for escapists, so maybe the magician?
Sowilo - Sun
Tiwaz - Justice/ judgement
Birkano - Tis is the rune of the body, so I am saying strength. Who knows, it could be the empress...
Ehwaz - Lovers. Definately.
Mannaz - possibly not the Magician
Laguz - Star/ magician
Ingwaz -moon
Dagaz - sun
Othala - A rune of blood and family, as well as tradition.

[S33k3R]

...There you go...thats at least slightly more sensible. Thanks :) I suspect I would link Gifu with the lovers...but thats just my interpretation of things. As stated, one would really have to make up your own. Its actually quite a useful exercise to do...gets you thinking.

Nice one.

[redhand]

Hmmm, well actually as you develop a deeper understanding of the Runes themselves you will understand why Thorsson suggest them the way he does. Runes are not just a divination tool nor is the Tarot!

Look at Fehu, of course the surface or mundane meaning is "money" or "cattle" but, this Rune also contains the mystery of both creation and destruction and the harmonious function of these two extremes. Remember that bovine aspect also represents the Cosmic Fire of Muspellsheimr that is instrumental in the creation of the world but, at the same time, also is the principle agent in it's destruction of Ragnarok! So here you can see why it relates to the Tower!LOL

Ansuz is simple to explain in it's correspondence with the Death card as it is the Rune of Death mysteries and transformation!

[chronazon]

I would look for runes to have more correspondance to crystals and geomancy than a correlation with the tarot, although for divinitory purposes, runes seem to do more with differant forces in events than the more archtypal (although runes are archtypal in their own way, just a differant way of looking at things) tarot, which is a differant system in the way things happen. I guess this would call into question the runic perspective and divinitory interprative diferances. I think they should all be incorporated nito something with gong he fot choy, a chinese fortune telling system used with the regular card deck (could perhaps the major aracna fall into suit place with the differant minor aracna subsets?) and the I ching, with another regular card deck as a linked subset of the tarot. they should all be incorporated into a master system. any more thoughts?

[S33k3R]

Hmmm, well actually as you develop a deeper understanding of the Runes themselves you will understand why Thorsson suggest them the way he does. Runes are not just a divination tool nor is the Tarot!

Look at Fehu, of course the surface or mundane meaning is "money" or "cattle" but, this Rune also contains the mystery of both creation and destruction and the harmonious function of these two extremes. Remember that bovine aspect also represents the Cosmic Fire of Muspellsheimr that is instrumental in the creation of the world but, at the same time, also is the principle agent in it's destruction of Ragnarok! So here you can see why it relates to the Tower!LOL

Ansuz is simple to explain in it's correspondence with the Death card as it is the Rune of Death mysteries and transformation!

It did strike me after the fact that FE upside down could represent the tower or loss of position, wealth and status, but I would ascribe the power of destruction and creation more to UR, the great Auroch.

I may be a bit odd here but I actually start my rune-cycle with UR and end with FE. To me, the Auroch represents the wild, untamed and sometimes destructive forces of nature that have within them all that is required to sustain life. Nomadic hunters and ancient man would have depended on the Auroch for all his basic needs, as the American Indian relied on the Buffalo. It is that bovine principle that is linked with Muspellsheimr. At the end, FE is also a bovine, but now a domesticated one and one that denotes wealth and ownership. They never owned the Auroch, but you can own cattle and thus complete the cycle. UR and FE are a bit like Yin and Yang. This cycle symbolizes mans mastery of nature and his rise into civility and beyond which is what the runes describe. Well to me at least.

I disagree that FE in itself represents destruction and creation, (mystery and death/rebirth being more linked to Peortra I think). I suspect that main flavour of this rune is in fact fulfillment and success. Bearing in mind that life is cyclic and all you ever do complete one cycle before starting the next.Your docile cattle soon turn back into the raging Auroch. However I suspect that the runes are so ancient and so much knowledge has been lost, that every person must come to a personal accord with them.

Ansuz is the God rune...when god created the universe he spoke a word, the breath of God was imbued with a power that is Ansuz. This is why the rune is associated with the element of air and intellect. I would think that the magician be linked with this rune, as the link between the source of all creation and that which was created.

[redhand]

It did strike me after the fact that FE upside down could represent the tower or loss of position, wealth and status, but I would ascribe the power of destruction and creation more to UR, the great Auroch.

I may be a bit odd here but I actually start my rune-cycle with UR and end with FE. To me, the Auroch represents the wild, untamed and sometimes destructive forces of nature that have within them all that is required to sustain life. Nomadic hunters and ancient man would have depended on the Auroch for all his basic needs, as the American Indian relied on the Buffalo. It is that bovine principle that is linked with Muspellsheimr. At the end, FE is also a bovine, but now a domesticated one and one that denotes wealth and ownership. They never owned the Auroch, but you can own cattle and thus complete the cycle. UR and FE are a bit like Yin and Yang. This cycle symbolizes mans mastery of nature and his rise into civility and beyond which is what the runes describe. Well to me at least.

I disagree that FE in itself represents destruction and creation, (mystery and death/rebirth being more linked to Peortra I think). I suspect that main flavour of this rune is in fact fulfillment and success. Bearing in mind that life is cyclic and all you ever do complete one cycle before starting the next.Your docile cattle soon turn back into the raging Auroch. However I suspect that the runes are so ancient and so much knowledge has been lost, that every person must come to a personal accord with them.

Ansuz is the God rune...when god created the universe he spoke a word, the breath of God was imbued with a power that is Ansuz. This is why the rune is associated with the element of air and intellect. I would think that the magician be linked with this rune, as the link between the source of all creation and that which was created.
Each person must internalise them as they must but, a good understanding of the culture and customs in which they come from also helps unlock these secrets.

UTHARK has no historical validity whatsoever. UTHARK was advocated by the Swedish professor Sigurd Agrell 19th century. He tried to prove that it was in fact the original rune row but he came up with no scientific validity facts at all. This has been popularised by author Kenneth Meadows who claims that it, rather than the traditional order of the Elder Futhark represents traditional runic practice. Agrell and Meadows both believe that the Elder Futhark starts in the wrong place pointing to the incongruity of a rune of fulfillment (Fehu/Feoh) being followed by a rune of questing (Uruz/Ur). They thus argue the runes should start with Uruz (Ur) and end with Fehu (Feoh). Although the Uthark is considered a flaw by many runelogists it is very popular among rune mystics in Europe. It has many symbolical values that the Futhark lacks and thus it can be seen as an esoteric rune row which corresponds with Odins descent to Hel, the "land" of the dead. The UTHARK is also associated with the idea of the loss of the F on stones that have great wear that have wore off. IMHO

Aurochs (Uruz) is related to the Mother of Manifestation sure enough as Audhumla but, a deeper look at this it represents the pattering and formulating power in the multiverse, the source of the ordering principles that lead to the final formulation of the world. The unmanifestated pattern of matter (this is the contrast of Isa).

Ansuz is a correlation of Odhinn, Who is also the god of Death!LOL:D

The symbol of Perthro death? I don't see that at all, the very symbol is that of divination. That of the dice cup!LOL

This of course is just my opinion from my experience.

[S33k3R]

Each person must internalise them as they must but, a good understanding of the culture and customs in which they come from also helps unlock these secrets.

UTHARK has no historical validity whatsoever. UTHARK was advocated by the Swedish professor Sigurd Agrell 19th century. He tried to prove that it was in fact the original rune row but he came up with no scientific validity facts at all. This has been popularised by author Kenneth Meadows who claims that it, rather than the traditional order of the Elder Futhark represents traditional runic practice. Agrell and Meadows both believe that the Elder Futhark starts in the wrong place pointing to the incongruity of a rune of fulfillment (Fehu/Feoh) being followed by a rune of questing (Uruz/Ur). They thus argue the runes should start with Uruz (Ur) and end with Fehu (Feoh). Although the Uthark is considered a flaw by many runelogists it is very popular among rune mystics in Europe. It has many symbolical values that the Futhark lacks and thus it can be seen as an esoteric rune row which corresponds with Odins descent to Hel, the "land" of the dead. The UTHARK is also associated with the idea of the loss of the F on stones that have great wear that have wore off. IMHO

Aurochs (Uruz) is related to the Mother of Manifestation sure enough as Audhumla but, a deeper look at this it represents the pattering and formulating power in the multiverse, the source of the ordering principles that lead to the final formulation of the world. The unmanifestated pattern of matter (this is the contrast of Isa).

Ansuz is a correlation of Odhinn, Who is also the god of Death!LOL

The symbol of Perthro death? I don't see that at all, the very symbol is that of divination. That of the dice cup!LOL

This of course is just my opinion from my experience.

The first book of the occult I ever picked up was in fact by Kenneth Meadows. Without doing any further research, I only came to know later that his UTHARK isn't the "historical" version. However when I read up on the FUTHARK, it just didn't make as much sense to me. Why start with wealth? However I freely admit that I use it simply because it was the first way I learned itand more importantly...I know it works. :)

I think that the UTHARK is very much inspired by the Tarot Arcana, giving it a sense of development and motion forward as a spiritual journey. The runes were originally used as a common alphabet, so I see no reason why the FUTHARK should be questioned as the "correct" way...I'm sure it is. Its just that as far as I'm concerned, the UTHARK is handier to use when not writing down your shopping list.

Ansuz=Odin=Death...thats fine, as I associate Odin more with Thoth the magician... however Thoth also ruled the underworld judged the dead.

Perhaps Peortra's death association comes from the same link...Thoth/Odin. As masters of all the Magics and divinations, all such forces must pass through their realms? ...and be brought forth into manifestation through the birth canal of the dice cup. The workings of what goes on inside the dice cup are secret.