Occult/Informations effect on Mental Stability

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

I have some questions for some of the "more experienced" here. Just some thoughts mainly about the mental changes that begin to take place once an individual gets interested in the occult. And damn, is it interesting stuff!

Now, my magickal experience this far has mostly consisted of (pretty weak but slightly creative)sigil casting, ONE ritual(get into that in a minute), and attempting to create a servitor(not sure if it worked or not, also will get to that). Mostly, tiny curious results have come about from all my tinkering around. So I am not really into the thick of things. I have mostly done ALOT of reading, on forums and sites all over the net, standing on the edge of things, in the background.

I'll take breaks every 6 months to a year. I'll lose interest and become involved in other things. This has went on for about 4 years. But I always somehow end up coming back to reading into the occult(especially the forums!) because it is just so fascinating to me. BUT, I notice a problem start to arise every time I come back. And it is the problem of what to believe. I feel like my sanity is somehow being threatened, because reality will become unsure to me.

I catch myself starting to really believe in angels and demons, in actual negative entities out to skull me if I step wrong. And I don't like that one bit. I did not grow up religous. I have never believed in the bible god, jesus or any of that. On the flip side, I've often been really fascinated how religous people function. If they really DO believe. I love watching those sunday morning shows. I'll sit there and just be in awe that all of these people are so wrapped up in something that seems so absurd. So it is scary to me to think I'm becoming one of them.

What makes that worse, is that religous people have ONE set of beliefs. Their god is gonna bail them out. Not so for me. If I start to believe one thing then the whole damn bus load shows up. Cthulu, Enochian angels/demons, egregores empowered into existence by belief energy, etc. I start to lose track of what is real and what is not. I can't tell. Does it even matter? It all starts to get very confusing until I just end up dropping it altogether.

I would love to get some Chaos Magickians input on this. Because as far as I know, the idea of chaos magick is to drop the dogma, sleep with with belief just for the sake of results(without ever calling back), no matter what religion or thought system you're exploiting. Have you ever had problems with getting attached to the beliefs?

I would also love to hear from some peeps who believe there is REAL **** out there that you just don't **** around with. I've seen this mostly in enochian discussions. Christianity, the bible religions seem to get the most attention over anything else when it comes to the seriousness of consequences. Alot of people seem to think it is REAL and not just a thought system for results to be exploited from.

In the end for me, I see it all as energy to be interacted with. Science has it's flaws but it's the most logical way to measure existence as far as I can tell. I've never seen angels or ugly squiggly things so why would I believe in them? I can believe that there is ENERGY given to the IDEA of them, which may give them some objectivity, somehow.

Anyway, have any of you had this "reality" problem along your paths? Am I being clear enough?

One last thing. The ritual I mentioned above was out of LaVey's "Satanic Bible". I did this with my own original touch to it. I did it without any real belief in Belal, Leviathan, Satan or Lucifer. However I did call their names. Back then, my skill at banishing was as is good as it is now. Extremely elementary. Are there those of you out there that do not even worry about banishing? How would I be able to tell if there are any adverse affects on my life or mind since then? I could describe the ritual in more detail if anyone is curious.

The servitor I have abandoned. It was a necklace with the head of the pharoah and a sigil inscribed on the back. I made him to give me better persuasion with girls I was attracted to. The day he was made, I ran into a very beautiful girl and ended up spending some time with her and her friends. Although it didn't work out with the girl, the pecuilar thing to me was her necklace. It was a more detailed, golden Pharoahs head. Should I destroy the servitor, even though it has been years since I've given it attention? Would there be adverse effects for abandoning it all this time?

Can any of you also offer advice on how to pay attention to negative effects if they are present? How to spot them out and know they are from occult tinkering as compared to just regular life bad luck/bad decisions?

Thank you so much for any response you can give me on this. It's a long post I know.

**EDIT**: And I've made it a little longer now!:D
Just a couple quick things. Do you think this has to do with obsession Peter Carol talked about? I've noticed when I get back into occult it seems to take over my daily thoughts. I'm trying to notice things that I usually wouldn't pay attention to. Way too much.

Also, the thread about the dangers of enochian magick mentioned something about Coronzon being related to Satan, and how this entity loves to throw off your stability, mentally and otherwise. I'm wondering if my satanic ritual has messed with me this way. As my life has been very random and erratic for a while. I could say it was that way before the ritual I guess. I also notice that I have an affinity for acting completely random and non-sensical alot of the time but this could also be decribed as just goofing off? I guess maybe i'm thinking too deep into all of this?

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

Cathy! I think you are right. I may be taking things a little too seriously. Thank you for your input.:)

[Harlock]

One thing htat i have noticed about especially some of the stuff you listed is that it begins to make you question and make you seem more paranoid. maybe its all the dark energy involved. I used to work severly light then i went dark, now im more gray if you want to use the color spectrum. and i have to say i feel more paranoid more angry less sure of myself, and many other things if i practice alot of dark. while light magick tend to help provide me with a certain direction. and makes me more proud for one. but if we "take in" enough of any energy it does seem to have an effect on our state of mind

what i would recogmend you doing is same thing cathy said, find a local group, thier is usually one at least in every county, find some friends that can help keep you grounded, and if you start feeling you "changed" dramastically ground yourself and step away from your workings from a day or two, i had to do that once.

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

My goal is to be able to work any paradigm I may be interested in without any sort of paranoia. I am trying to pay attention to myself though. What is for me and what is not.

I think you and Cathy are right though. I am more of a solitary person when it comes to these sorts of things. It's very personal to me. But group work/ideas/support/fun is something I don't want to miss out on either! Thanks for the ideas, both of you! :D

[S33k3R]

Heres my advise...fake it...fake sanity...I do.

I'm as mad as a March Hair, but read most of my posts here and you'll find them mostly well thought out, structured and logical. I balance insanity with critical thought...khaos with logic.

They say the very definition of insanity is the ability to hold two diametrically opposed thoughts in your head at the same time and understand both at once. I'll find myself watching a series of lectures on M-Theory, (part of string theory), on youtube while arranging a few rune stones in a fashion that I might work into a sigil. As far as I'm concerned, its all one thing.

I suspect that if someone had to walk in on me that moment, see the candles, stones and then listen as I explain how I relate it all to quantum physics...the men in white coats would be along shortly.

But therein lies the trick of it, balance. You said you go through phases where you become almost obsesses...well, the moment you start feeling like your reality is dissolving down that famous rabbit hole...Read an article by Richard Dawkins or something...allow yourself to say..."you know...the dude makes sense"...then go do something arbitrary. Bridge the gap between cold sterile logic and the illusive Chesire cat.


I've often been really fascinated how religous people function. If they really DO believe. I love watching those sunday morning shows. I'll sit there and just be in awe that all of these people are so wrapped up in something that seems so absurd. So it is scary to me to think I'm becoming one of them.

Don't worry...you won't. Big difference between them and you...you question it, you don't buy it...not the way its sold to you...you cry bullshit and demand a better answer, when one is not forthcoming you say "WTF...then I'll make up my own"..Truth is, your guess is as good as theirs is. Maybe better because you've researched...thought about it...cogitated, applied it to your reality.

Why do we question our sanity?...you seen what those muppets believe?...wholesale? WTF? Allow me a little George Carlin here:

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!....But He loves you. He loves you, and....He needs money!
He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy ****!

Instability is good...learn to use the inherent instability of reality to your advantage. Thats all good magicians do really, change is the only constant. Thats the base of all magics. Whether you invoke a God or Demon to hasten the change is a point of academia. Have no fear, the fear of change is the beginning of death


Yea...though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death
I shall fear non...
for I am the maddest bastard in the valley

As far as the question of "is this stuff for real or is it all in my head?" My standard answer is "Does it really matter...reality is in your head anyway...so whats the difference?". However if you prefer an analogy, I posted this a while back. I know I'll be quoting myself...but WTF...

http://www.occultforums.net/beginner-information/1483-sticky-2.html


Whatever you believe, we're all insane, each and every one of us...most deny it, others fear it. Embrace the insanity, its a frikken cool ride.

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

They say the very definition of insanity is the ability to hold two diametrically opposed thoughts in your head at the same time and understand both at once.

That's fascinating. I've had that problem my whole life. I can argue black is white and white is black. It's actually a huge pain in the ass for decision making. And I firmly believe that this fact is a root cause of my problem so far in occult dealings. The problem of unsurity.


But therein lies the trick of it, balance.

Agree 100%. Thank you. I'll keep this in mind. Maybe it's why I've taken so many breaks from the occult over the years.


Why do we question our sanity?...you seen what those muppets believe?...wholesale? WTF? Allow me a little George Carlin here:


Ha, Carlin didn't take any bullshit. You heard of Bill Hicks? He was awesome too. I consider them more philosphers than anything else. They were just friggin funny too. :p

Change. Instability. Exciting times(well, time, or no time?) in the universe/existence aren't they? It IS a very very awesome ride. It's almost hard to even take seriously. I can't remember where I heard this, I think even i've pulled it out of the sub-conscious and thought it was my original thought, but either way, we were created by the universe/existence so it could acknowledge itself in the mirror, take a look, and have a big friggin laugh. It's so easy to forget in our little worlds we wrap ourselves into the MAGIC of what is actually going on. It's the closest I ever get to deep meditation or enlightenment when I think about it. Well, I could go on and on about all this. Especially some of the dreams i've had.

[S33k3R]

I can argue black is white and white is black. It's actually a huge pain in the ass for decision making. And I firmly believe that this fact is a root cause of my problem so far in occult dealings. The problem of unsurity.

Nope...that "unsurity" of which you perceive to be problematic...thats the key right there see. If there was NO unsurity...magic could NOT exist. If reality was a fixed thing, an unchangeable planned mechanism that just ran like a windows executable file...then no dice. However...reality is actually Linux based...and you got the source code...so learn some Python and start hacking.

This is the base of the whole Khaos paradigm...chaos is just that...chaotic, its the very essence and the heart of that "unsurity". All things arose from chaos and all shall descend back to chaos, (as shown by the second law of thermodynamics), therefore things are mutable and changeable. God himself is chaos and creation, chaos and destruction.

Problem is, mankind is inherently logical...or shall I say that we have become inherently logical creatures. This puts us at odds with the natural chaotic order of the universe.
I always say that logic killed magic

Order is a natural part of chaos and does not need any effort to attain...embrace chaos to attain order. Do some research on fractal images and the mathematics used to generate them, this will give you a good idea on what I mean.

Heres a thought, the fact that you perceive this duality and unsurity as "problematic" is the actual block to your occult path?

...but maybe I'm wrong and just a nutter...who knows? ;)

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

However...reality is actually Linux based...and you got the source code...so learn some Python and start hacking.

Ha i love that. Nice analogy.


Heres a thought, the fact that you perceive this duality and unsurity as "problematic" is the actual block to your occult path?


Hmmmmmm(strokes imaginary beard like Pei Mei). I've always had a "questioning" mind. So much to the point that it HAS been a nuisance for certain things. But, I love it. I am glad I have naturally been that way, and I DO have fun with it. But when it comes to wondering "Now, should I treat these goetic spirits like they really do exist, or are they just a part of my imagination?", well it's kind of troublesome and makes me drop it all together. I guess you just kinda have forge a path and stick to your guns. Pick a belief and go with it?


...but maybe I'm wrong and just a nutter...who knows?

Ha, we all are man.:D

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

Currently it's being held(unknowingly by a friend) in some luggage containing most of my magick books and such. The servitor itself is contained in a yellow pharoahs sarcophagus(from mcdonalds i think lol). Although I did no enchantment to the sarcophagus. It just looked like something that would be a good fit for the servitor. I don't want to just leave it there however. I feel sort of guilty honestly. When I get it back I would like to clean it of impurities and strengthen it. Your info really helps and I've saved it. I definitely want to try this.

Awesome document though. Thank you!:)

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

Something for you to understand in how my trip home has been. I tried to talk to my mother about what qi did at the hospital and they couldn't except what I was doing. I actually helped, but was told if I said what I did I would be considered crazy. This is the world we live in when a simple release od a grandfathers spirit is crazy.

I tried to also talk to them about my medium abilities and they never want to hear it. As much as I want to be acceptted by my parents in my occult beliefs they just are not willing to try. This does not make me crazy but just shows how society can be when it comes to us. Good news at least we do not have tobe worried aboutr being burned at the stake for praticing what we all do. I may not be wiccan but they would claim witchcraft on me.

Close-minded ignorance. Shake it off and don't let it slow you down. I'm sorry you have such a problem with your family. I don't share the same problem. I don't talk to people about my occult dealings, except for those who WANT to talk. I like it being secret.

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

one of the best things one can do before they begin magic is figure out why they really want to walk this path.

one must become a Mystic before they become a Magician.
that's what the whole contact with the Holy Guardian Angel is all about.
contact with That makes one a Mystic: one who seeks & loves "God" 1st.

"Seek ye 1st the Kingdom of God." - "It is within you." - The Bible

once some contact is made, all ones desires slowly begin to revolve around virtuous activities.

virtuous actions lead to happiness. bad actions lead to suffering. this is basic karmic law (cause & effect).

if you figure out your True Will (Swa-Dharma) via contact with your HGA,
you won't waste what limited Chi/Ki/Prana/Ruach/Heka you have pursuing trivial magical goals.

you have a limited amount of Chi, use it wisely :)
this becomes more self-evident the older your body gets...

regarding mental stability, grounding is something one has to practice a lot of.
generally speaking, air & water signs will have a harder time with this.

daily mental/emotional stability is also greatly influenced by the planets but that is another post in itself.

best wishes on your journey,
myro


Myrobalan, thank you for all that. You've made some good points. I am no longer interested in really using magick for small things. Well, maybe something here and there. My main thirst is to satisfy my lust for knowing beyond the surface. You said first be a mystic. Wiki mentions something about mysticism, wanting knowledge beyond the 5 senses. I agree with that statement in poking at what i'm looking for. That's the thing. I feel like I am looking, but for what I'm not sure. I just feel something. I've since I was a kid. I believe i have a philosophers spirit.

Anyway, you quote the bible, and bring up god and HGA. I get turned off by all that. I've never been a christian and am not sure I ever will be. So how could i work with LBRP or towards conversation with HGA if I don't believe in it? Not that I disbelieve it either. In the end I want to touch the universe. I want to truly feel existence. To be in tune with it. Or vibrate with it? With what is actually going on. This may be as close as I can get to becoming one with god. My god is not the bible god. My god is not an entity. I don't really have a god. I just realize that something amazing is happening here and it is beyond any comprehension at all. But maybe you can get close to some sort of realization that puts you in tune with it all. Tell me what you think please? Are you christian?

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

Myrobalan, thanks!

I am currently trying to print that book, in the computer room at my apartments. It's about 370 pages lol. I ran all the paper out with it and had to bug them for more. I'm leaving town soon to go work a national park and figured it'd be good reading while i'm out there.

Thanks for clearing up alot of my misunderstandings. And thank you, I feel like I have a good soul :). I can tell you do as well.

Why do you believe most spirits lie? In a ying/yang polarities sense it should at least be half :D.


the Yogis have said that the quickest path to enlightenment is to constantly meditate on the 3rd eye, Ajna chakra. & too also see the Divine everywhere (outside & inside of you).

Could you elaborate on this? Some nice links even would help.


if you understand the essence of the 4 Noble Truths & Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, you will gain much wisdom & contentment.


This one too. :D


let me know what path you leans towards...so that i can tailor my messages.


What do you mean by path?

Oh and, again, thanks for the book. That's a huge score for me from the way you explain it. I've been looking for something like that.

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

Okay! Thanks again. I'll be saving this one too.

Not so sure about my future self however. Maybe in some energy form without a direct consciousness...

I believe in karma in the way of reactions. Not that the universe will send something "bad" back on you if YOU do "bad", but there will of course be a reaction that will send out it's ripples through the cosmic fabric. I don't really think the universe has an idea of "bad" or "good". It just IS and there are teeter-totter reactions to opposite points hence the cause and then the effect.

I appreciate your links and info on all this. You mentioned "path" earlier. I guess I could say I'm more interested in results than any sort of doctrines on how to live. However I do understand that certain ways of living preached in those doctrines do effect the strength and possibilities of the results.

[S33k3R]

I tend to agree with that...I recon God is on a beach somewhere sippin a Pina-Colada wondering why we keep talking to him.

Really...he went through all the hassle of creating this awesomely finely tuned and remarkably unlikely universe, that is self correcting on all levels, always seeks the optimum point of balance and allows those that wish to ascend to higher planes of existence and manifest their personal will if only they quite complaining and got off the couch...why create ALL this if you have to sit and micro-manage it?

...I bet he's all like..."dudes, just get on with it...I'm chillin..."

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

...I bet he's all like..."dudes, just get on with it...I'm chillin..."

Ha!:D

Classic. I hope god likes pina coladas...I do. It'd be nice to have a few with him and shoot the ****.

"You god! Wassup?!"

Amen.

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

future self = i meant your next incarnation :D

our actions follow us from life to life. the good you do now will follow you.

the spiritual practices you do now will follow you.

you desire a path of results? then some form of gnostic path is good.

Buddhism is a gnostic path but without all those confusing Archons & thingies.

Buddhism is also not concerned with dogma.

i am talking about old school Buddhism though (hinayana ), not mahayana (tibetan buddhism & the like).

you will do fine. just keep on keeping on :)

your inner Self will guide you :D

blessings,
myro

No No No, I know you meant some form of reincarnation! I was just saying, I'm not sure about all that. Some energy of mine may get dispersed, but as far as souls and coming back as a gorilla(awesome:D) or something like that is concerned, well it all sounds a little far-fetched to ME.

Explain gnostic path? I feel if I have success with certain methods from different paradigms, especially success with tasting the universe, then that is what works. I do like the idea of picking something for now though, and sticking with it. It's not a very organic method, but hey, you gotta start somewhere. I've started reading "Circles Of Power" and really like it so far. Think I'll start there and the whole golden dawn system.

Hey mods, sorry about the thread going off topic!

[RunningAroundNakedOnFire]

Cute respones. But in no way put a dent in my tower of intellectiusmness. Ha. Okay, seriously though. Thinking a thought is insane, and since you can't avoid that, then yeah, we're all nuts.


gnostic = gnosis = gyana = jnana = soundless imageless vibrationless wisdom

Okay, that hits close to that big red thing on the dartboard. Whatever it's names been called throughout the ages. Or "yugas" for you Myrobalan.:D

Anyway, many great works and blah.

I have an idea. The brain is mysterious, can we all agree on that?

Well, lets say anyone of us happen to be sitting around one day. There's no daath, no cthulu, no crowley, no dawn, no teacher, no nothin'.

Let's say you look up, layin on some grass, or carpet, and a sudden thought snaps in your brain, a weird synapse, and suddenly there is no "sense". There are no forums, there are no names, there are no anythings, no explanations, no reasons to tell whoever the hell. You just have a certain electronic jolt ie nirvana, enlightenment, whatever the crap, and ......

Well, anyway. I think sometimes we all get caught up in the trackways, the trails(which are for sure important) that we lose sight of the amazing unexplainable.

[IMtM]

I have some questions for some of the "more experienced" here. Just some thoughts mainly about the mental changes that begin to take place once an individual gets interested in the occult. And damn, is it interesting stuff!

Now, my magickal experience this far has mostly consisted of (pretty weak but slightly creative)sigil casting, ONE ritual(get into that in a minute), and attempting to create a servitor(not sure if it worked or not, also will get to that). Mostly, tiny curious results have come about from all my tinkering around. So I am not really into the thick of things. I have mostly done ALOT of reading, on forums and sites all over the net, standing on the edge of things, in the background.

I'll take breaks every 6 months to a year. I'll lose interest and become involved in other things. This has went on for about 4 years. But I always somehow end up coming back to reading into the occult(especially the forums!) because it is just so fascinating to me. BUT, I notice a problem start to arise every time I come back. And it is the problem of what to believe. I feel like my sanity is somehow being threatened, because reality will become unsure to me.

I catch myself starting to really believe in angels and demons, in actual negative entities out to skull me if I step wrong. And I don't like that one bit. I did not grow up religous. I have never believed in the bible god, jesus or any of that. On the flip side, I've often been really fascinated how religous people function. If they really DO believe. I love watching those sunday morning shows. I'll sit there and just be in awe that all of these people are so wrapped up in something that seems so absurd. So it is scary to me to think I'm becoming one of them.

What makes that worse, is that religous people have ONE set of beliefs. Their god is gonna bail them out. Not so for me. If I start to believe one thing then the whole damn bus load shows up. Cthulu, Enochian angels/demons, egregores empowered into existence by belief energy, etc. I start to lose track of what is real and what is not. I can't tell. Does it even matter? It all starts to get very confusing until I just end up dropping it altogether.

I would love to get some Chaos Magickians input on this. Because as far as I know, the idea of chaos magick is to drop the dogma, sleep with with belief just for the sake of results(without ever calling back), no matter what religion or thought system you're exploiting. Have you ever had problems with getting attached to the beliefs?

I would also love to hear from some peeps who believe there is REAL **** out there that you just don't **** around with. I've seen this mostly in enochian discussions. Christianity, the bible religions seem to get the most attention over anything else when it comes to the seriousness of consequences. Alot of people seem to think it is REAL and not just a thought system for results to be exploited from.

In the end for me, I see it all as energy to be interacted with. Science has it's flaws but it's the most logical way to measure existence as far as I can tell. I've never seen angels or ugly squiggly things so why would I believe in them? I can believe that there is ENERGY given to the IDEA of them, which may give them some objectivity, somehow.

Anyway, have any of you had this "reality" problem along your paths? Am I being clear enough?

One last thing. The ritual I mentioned above was out of LaVey's "Satanic Bible". I did this with my own original touch to it. I did it without any real belief in Belal, Leviathan, Satan or Lucifer. However I did call their names. Back then, my skill at banishing was as is good as it is now. Extremely elementary. Are there those of you out there that do not even worry about banishing? How would I be able to tell if there are any adverse affects on my life or mind since then? I could describe the ritual in more detail if anyone is curious.

The servitor I have abandoned. It was a necklace with the head of the pharoah and a sigil inscribed on the back. I made him to give me better persuasion with girls I was attracted to. The day he was made, I ran into a very beautiful girl and ended up spending some time with her and her friends. Although it didn't work out with the girl, the pecuilar thing to me was her necklace. It was a more detailed, golden Pharoahs head. Should I destroy the servitor, even though it has been years since I've given it attention? Would there be adverse effects for abandoning it all this time?

Can any of you also offer advice on how to pay attention to negative effects if they are present? How to spot them out and know they are from occult tinkering as compared to just regular life bad luck/bad decisions?

Thank you so much for any response you can give me on this. It's a long post I know.

**EDIT**: And I've made it a little longer now!:D
Just a couple quick things. Do you think this has to do with obsession Peter Carol talked about? I've noticed when I get back into occult it seems to take over my daily thoughts. I'm trying to notice things that I usually wouldn't pay attention to. Way too much.

Also, the thread about the dangers of enochian magick mentioned something about Coronzon being related to Satan, and how this entity loves to throw off your stability, mentally and otherwise. I'm wondering if my satanic ritual has messed with me this way. As my life has been very random and erratic for a while. I could say it was that way before the ritual I guess. I also notice that I have an affinity for acting completely random and non-sensical alot of the time but this could also be decribed as just goofing off? I guess maybe i'm thinking too deep into all of this?
If you are conjecturing about "Coronzon" then you have missed the point. Coronzon is attributed to the Hebrewically spirtualistic term known as "Da'ath." But, of course, your thoughts on such could be easily applied to your Ego. In that case, you need to do some personal introspection and apply it unto your life.

[One and Only...]

RANOF: What is so strange, a priori, about thinking there might be intervening spirits in the world? Perhaps you were not raised to believe in them - but the majority of human beings, through various shamanic traditions and their descendants, certainly have. In fact, it would be a massive cosmic coincidence if our perceptual faculties were so acute that they represented all facets of reality to us. If in your experience you interact with forces which act as though they were sentient, it seems natural to believe they are sentient. In some reports, the evidence of their sentience surpasses that of animals.

On keeping sanity: here are two tricks.

First, look through the occult literature and observe the contradictions. They are abundant. My explanation for this is not that the occult lacks validity, but that we need to make a strong distinction between occult experiences and explanations of occult experiences. Our experiences are, I think, much more reliable than our explanations of them (although one must be on the look-out for liars, of whom I suspect there are many).

Second, think about the weaknesses of occultists. I have never met one who would not die from a bullet through the head or not have their ass kicked by a Muay Thai artist. In my opinion, occult power tends to work subtly and over a long-term. Nor are occultists particularly ethically, religiously, politically, etc, savvy: too often prideful occultists play pretend philosopher-king. Humility and sanity are often intertwined.

[gelly]

I have spoken to experienced Magicians and people involved in Occult, they say a lot of people go quite mental after being involved in occult practices for a while. They usually give up after 5-10 years.