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rian123
11-29-2008, 12:08 PM
Most religions believe that the human has a soul or spirit that is immortal and when the physical body dies it will either reincarnate or go on the the spiritual world. Do you believe in a soul and afterlife, what do you believe?

Lady Dunsany
11-30-2008, 10:46 AM
I believe the real body is the Astral and the physical is just a coat we put on. I believe when we die we go into Devachan till our next incarnation. I believe in the other side as i have seen it. It is a choice whether you want to come back or not. I intend to make this my last round on this globe. I will not be coming back. The rest can be saved for a winter storm.

Odin
11-30-2008, 11:00 AM
I believe that the Astral Body is the real body and as stated above we are just clothed in a coat of skin to learn lessons in a physical form

A example of this can be seen if a person looses a limb and still feels that limb,this is because e are still whole in the astral plane

I believe that we choose to incarnate to learn life's lessons as well as the family we need to learn these lessons from

isis
12-01-2008, 05:04 PM
i agree with lady d and odin... for i also believe that the astral body is the real body... i have had some dreams that i did not know but come to find out that i have lived in that time and place as my past life.... with the help of a friend i found this out...

Harlock
12-08-2008, 08:30 AM
my belief is that when you die the actual you leaves your body and goes to "heaven" "hell" "underworld (jail)" or "limbo" heavens for the people who tried to live a decent moral life with what they had, and then we get reincarnated and go back through the process, until we reach full spiritual enlightenment then we stay up in those lofty clouds, hell is like the death row (no pun intended) you screwed up so much in more than one of your lifetimes, or you screwed up so badly in one of them that ole lucifer was the only one that would take you, the underworld is just punishment, you arent worthy of either placed, and you have to "pay your dues" before you can go back to heaven get cleansed and go back down to earth, and then you got limbo aka purgatory, these are where the ghosts and spirits that we meet are, kinda stuck right in the middle for whatever reason, and if their cause is great enough the reapers leave the ghosties alone to do their buissness,

Gazeeboh
12-12-2008, 12:14 PM
Spirit
Soul
Body

Highest to lowest order, this is what I believe we are composed of.
These are connected now, and blend into one another.

Any how, when our meat puppet finally dies (and thank god for that), your soul/spirit leaves. Some people stick around here, most of those people are miserable shades and wayward spirits. Others just have some stuff to take care of.

You can move out from there. Up or down. Wherever it is you think you should go. Heaven, Hell, Vallhalla, Japan, Mars, etc. You can move to another realm.

This is where it gets good. If you stick around here, you have to act like a human spirit. You need to sustain your soul by eating up the energies around here. Psychics and sensitives are often plauged by spirits because they want help and this gets them the energy they need (most human souls are unaware of their condition and how to survive.)

If you go somewhere else after death, that realm will support your soul/spirit. You have to play by it's rules though to get the energy you need.

The other option is to simply let go of yourself and rejoin the cosmic whole. Go back to Brahman. Get re-cycled into the universe and enrich everything with your experiences.

But thats just what I made up.

Lady Dunsany
12-12-2008, 01:59 PM
Now how did I know that? LOL.

Odin
01-09-2009, 11:49 PM
but whether you go the the other world heaven or are earth bound depends on the type of death that is incured

a very bad accident say where you are violently thrown from your body and don't realize that you are not dead and are earth bound aimlessly walking this earth plane compared to a natural death say non violent death

ElNebuloso
01-10-2009, 12:37 AM
I let all things move through me like the flowing river, the self is not an issue.

Lady Dunsany
01-10-2009, 06:31 AM
I let all things move through me like the flowing river, the self is not an issue.
The self is not an issue as there is no self.

agedone
01-10-2009, 08:22 AM
I am in agreement with Lady Dunsany. I have hoped that this was my last incarnation for a long time now but recently I am not so sure. As tiring as it all gets there is still so much more to do.

Lady Dunsany
01-10-2009, 10:47 AM
I am in agreement with Lady Dunsany. I have hoped that this was my last incarnation for a long time now but recently I am not so sure. As tiring as it all gets there is still so much more to do.
Do not worry, for you can do it all without coming back.

agedone
01-10-2009, 01:22 PM
Do not worry, for you can do it all without coming back.

Of this I can only hope.

Lady Dunsany
01-10-2009, 02:09 PM
Of this I can only hope.
Hope is all we have sometimes.

Zhydan'zyel
01-11-2009, 09:03 PM
Most religions believe that the human has a soul or spirit that is immortal and when the physical body dies it will either reincarnate or go on the the spiritual world. Do you believe in a soul and afterlife, what do you believe?

I believe that only the spirit is immortal... When you die, you leave behind your physical and astral body...

As for coming back... maybe non of us want to... however, I think alot of us have to... Or any of you feeling like an almost perfect god?... :rolleyes:

Lady Dunsany
01-11-2009, 09:16 PM
That is an interesting way to look at things, but in my experiences and teachings the astral body is the spirit body and is the one that lives on and eventually is able to go on without a physical body. It is the seven part system or the seven fold path. What most believe is physical astral and spirit is actually physical which dies and spirit which eventually merges with the astral to make the perfect divine and real body.

Zhydan'zyel
01-11-2009, 10:00 PM
I believe that the spirit of man has been created in the image of God and consists of body (physical) soul (astral) and spirit... The spirit is your so called higher self, which is immortal, and the body and soul serve only as a vessel for the spirit... Your spirit is what connects you to God, and you use your physical and astral body to explore the corresponding realms...
By the way, my "theory" is mostly influenced by Bardon...

Lady Dunsany
01-11-2009, 10:17 PM
Well this is why we have discussions to learn what each believes. The physical body dies and yes the higher self which is Atma is a god spark that waits above for the next incarnation and merges with the new astral to form a new physical body. However Alchemists and Theosophists know the true body that will live on after there is no physical will be the astral as that is what one's who have chosen not to come back and work on the sidelines become. The higher self is the astral, the soul is a spark of divinity, It is the Bodhisattva. Yes my goal is to become a God one day and that god is the still small voice inside. My teachings are from the ones at Point Loma and the teachings of Madame Blavatsky. Have a good day.

Royal Heart
01-11-2009, 10:52 PM
I do not believe in the soul, being Buddhist. I don't believe that there can be such thing as a permanent, isolated "self". I can't disagree, however, that there is a continuity. That things arise because they are caused - that a mind simply cannot wink into existence when you are born. There has to be a previous cause for it.

Jac
01-11-2009, 10:53 PM
I believe that Mind, Body, and Soul are all intertwined to create the whole of oneself. When one manages to shed their corporeal form in some way (death, or otherwise), I don't feel that the self is compromised though. I would like to believe that the Mind and Soul collaborate in order to create a new "Body" or Spirit. In this state one should be able to continue life indefinitely in whatever manner suits them.

Lady Dunsany
01-13-2009, 10:55 PM
My teachings mind manas, body buddhi and atma spirit are the scared three. Body dies , ego dies but the spirit or divinity still exist hanging around while the astral rests. Atma is always as is and corporates a new body along with the lower self. I would like to think this gets more and more evolved and ascends on the hierarchy of which we all hope to rise one day.

Lady Dunsany
01-18-2009, 09:49 AM
You have come close to what is truly the reality, except think of the Universal Man as the whole Universe think of us inside this man, and then realize inside of us is beings which rely on us to live. What one does affects the other. Think of the sun as a God, and you can not see him because the light of the sun covers him. Philosophers had hit on the truth when talking of many Gods and all beings made of energy.

Harlock
01-26-2009, 06:54 AM
very interesting philosophies in here infortantly if I replied to them all i would have no time to type my essay for college lol but as far as reincarnation goes I believe that I will be here for quite awhile....but like someone above stated as much as the problems we face suck, I would get rather bored remaining high above or doing work but only behind the curtain...I much rather be the actor in the grand play no matter how small my part is, For then you get to experiance the joys of your hard work even more

Dreamer.
01-26-2009, 05:09 PM
On what happens after death, frankly i don't know. Tho i suspect that might be it. Game over. Your dead.

On the other hand I have heard some as of yet unexplainable phenomena which would point towards reincarnation. And so i don't completely discount this idea.

However even if there was no heaven, hell, or reincarnation and your soul (assuming there is such a thing) died with your body you are still not truly dead. The actions you have taken in life will affect the future in ways we cannot imagine. The universe wastes nothing. You have lived and the universe will not forget. I don't think there is any reason to fear death, you were in a way dead for billions of years before you were born and that wasnt so bad was it?

Koushiro
01-26-2009, 10:39 PM
On what happens after death, frankly i don't know. Tho i suspect that might be it. Game over. Your dead.

On the other hand I have heard some as of yet unexplainable phenomena which would point towards reincarnation. And so i don't completely discount this idea.

However even if there was no heaven, hell, or reincarnation and your soul (assuming there is such a thing) died with your body you are still not truly dead. The actions you have taken in life will affect the future in ways we cannot imagine. The universe wastes nothing. You have lived and the universe will not forget. I don't think there is any reason to fear death, you were in a way dead for billions of years before you were born and that wasnt so bad was it?

I kinda beg to differ, we were not dead for billions before life, as to have the attribute of being dead, one would have to die and for one to die, one would have to be living. Plus i dont like the idea of just dying as then your consciousness would stop, it would be like just being deleted off of a computer.

I believe there isn't an afterlife, as that would indicate that i believe that were alive. I feel that you just enter a different state of consciousness.

Alister
01-27-2009, 01:42 AM
I believe that if you want a afterlife you have to transfer the consciousness that you have now into another world where your body is eternal.

DrifterKane
01-30-2009, 12:25 AM
Hello

I wonder that question now and then?

I agree with some here I do not really know and I feel that it would take someone to have actually passed over then to actually come back and say hay!! I know the answer to the age old question.

But to add something I do feel that we have a physical form and another the blue print form connected to the physical which is known as the astral being being one name it is called. That astral self that is connected to realms outside outside of the physical form.

This is one idea that blue print which is connected to experience outside of the world of matter after all everything is experience.

I feel that we are eternal rather than immortal.

As one dies that part called by some the soul or world soul which moves on to another fourm of ourselves. Since matter & energy cannot be created nor destroyed we simply return to the source, rearranged and reborn into another form of existence.

As to the feeling when someone loses a limb that is that astral self just a thought.

Thank you

Drifter Kane:)

dannerz
02-05-2009, 08:16 AM
an interesting little thread.

as far as i have been able to learn, reality is alive, and that aliveness can directly relate to an eternal realness. being alive is a part of being real, and ya can't stop being real. we use words like "astral body" and "soul" to try to describe levels of our existence which are deeper than the first appearances of existence which are considered by many atheists as the only existence. it's probably deeper than words can describe, but from a view of a pantheist we're a part of God : the highest level of being. some part of us could be like that, never ending and infinite.

Azzerac
02-13-2009, 05:07 PM
Now THERE'S a 'kettle of fish'!

The "Secret Life of Plants" experiments demonstrate the exsistance of the morphic field before the fertilization of the egg. The amino acid experiments have proven that DNA, and therefore LIFE, is a Rule more than an exception.
LIFE is the law.
Having been dead, as well as knocked out of my body for a week at an early age, Yes: There is something that doesn't require the flesh to contain or produce it. It's an energy pattern that appears to be extant, separate and beyond the flesh.
"Yes, Virginia: There is a Soul".

There is a simple problem with the current thinking:
This "Soul Model" has been made to be at odds with what we know to be true about our own physical evolution. The "Soul Comes From On High, and Creates the Flesh" demeans the role our parents played in our conception. It invalidates 304Million Years of Evolution, just from mud-fish to here.
It also fails to recognize that the path we walked to get to this level of spiritual development is a trail of blood.
Our evolution is a path of broken & mutated bodies, as we killed each other, and anything else to survive, reproduce, and evolve to this form, this mind, this soul.
If the soul comes from "On High", it means that murder, rape, and worse are supported by "The True Faith", and self-justify our spiritual path.

It's the same problem I have with "The Future is Set in Stone" idea of the Akashic Record. If it's all been done, or is being done in an infinite number of parallel universes, what's the point to any of it?

I may not have all the answers on this one, but are we really asking ourselves the right questions?

"Even the Prettiest Lie is still just a Lie". ~Ac-ism 30-Something

Lady Dunsany
02-13-2009, 05:17 PM
I have had the Book The Secret Life of Plants, it opened my eyes to quite a bit. I could not put it down. I think I will go back and read it again.

Azariel Darkmoon
02-13-2009, 08:19 PM
just another thought, i am a vampire. i have been for a while now. i believe i am immortal, but i can die. in other words this body will continue to live on until it is either murdered, destroyed or some other damaging effect happens. i dont think that i can die from natural causes, ie, cancer, old age, etc, but only from an outside and malicious force. but im not sure yet, so please dont quote me.

Immortal, but never out of deaths hands.
Az.

Lady Dunsany
02-13-2009, 08:54 PM
just another thought, i am a vampire. i have been for a while now. i believe i am immortal, but i can die. in other words this body will continue to live on until it is either murdered, destroyed or some other damaging effect happens. i dont think that i can die from natural causes, ie, cancer, old age, etc, but only from an outside and malicious force. but im not sure yet, so please dont quote me.

Immortal, but never out of deaths hands.
Az.

Azariel please if I sound completely naive but I heard that Vampires if they do not get their blood whether by the butchers or donors will become sick. Is it true if you will never get sick if you are in supply. It is sad is it not to know no matter what we do we will eventually succumb to something that arrests our immortality. Makes me wonder.

Azariel Darkmoon
02-14-2009, 06:33 PM
that is true. now it may sound conradictory, but like i said i dont have this all figured out yet. first there are many different types of vampires. those types being:

Sanguraian: Blood Drinkers.
Pranic: Energy Feeders.
Psychic: Emotional Feeders
Tantric: Sexual Feeders, feeding off the energy and libdo created only during sex.

now if a vampire doesnt feed on a regular basis, (as i havent) our "immune system" if you will, starts to diminish and we get sick, as in colds and the like. this is only based on my own personal experiences, not others. I can only speak for myself. I hope that this sheds a little insight on the subject.

Az.

Lady Dunsany
02-14-2009, 06:56 PM
I had no idea there were that many. I knew about Blood Drinkers and Psychic Vampires, but not the others. Thank You so much.

WiggyWarlock
02-15-2009, 08:32 AM
I believe that the universe is an energy system evolving towards greater consciousness and that life forms part of this evolution. When we are born we take with us part of this universal energy (kia, divine spark, soul etc) and thorough consciousness and experience we help the universe evolve that little bit further.

When you die your spark of energy is absorbed back into the universe.

However I believe through spiritual or occult practice it is possible to keep your energy spark unique/separate and retain knowledge/experience across multiple incarnations.

Azariel Darkmoon
02-16-2009, 12:16 AM
I had no idea there were that many. I knew about Blood Drinkers and Psychic Vampires, but not the others. Thank You so much.

Im glad to have been of help, and as I thought, I went and fed yesterday, and now my cold is gone. If there is anything else that I may shed light upon feel free to ask or let me know.

Az

Lady Dunsany
02-16-2009, 12:46 AM
Im glad to have been of help, and as I thought, I went and fed yesterday, and now my cold is gone. If there is anything else that I may shed light upon feel free to ask or let me know.

Az

Thank You. I have a lot of questions which I will write down and save them for a rainy day. I have such compassion for you and your kind, I do not know why.

percival
02-17-2009, 02:12 PM
Many believe in reincarnation,but as for myself i tend to doubt it.If you look at the idea of emanation that some esoteric schools teach...that there are countless worlds that descend from the finest to the coarsest which is physical matter.so the realm of god would be of the finest and not subject to any laws and gradually as the worlds descend and unfold the vibrations get slower and courser and are subject to more laws,the bottom rung would be this earthly existence.why would we have to come back here??maybe like all living things we just borrow that the recyclable spiritual material to animate this planetary body and when the body dies that material we borrowed goes back to the source,purified of any psychic elements it had once taken on.sure i'd like to think i was was Alexander the great or someone like that in a previous life but imo that amounts to nothing more than fanciful or wishful thinking.when we leave this realm i doubt anything that resembles us as individual's remains.

The Hunter
02-18-2009, 12:14 AM
There is one thing you can get when you drink blood, even if your a vampire. STI's and STD's, proven fact, occult aside those are the ropes.

Now about the whole immortal vs mortal stuff.

I've always had the perspective that you only get one shot, however.

It is my persoanl belief that we are in a way reincarnated, just not fully.

Imagne divity as an old woman standing over a pot of pure energy. When someone dies, their energy gets dumped into the pot. There is mixes, and gets spread out into the entire pot of energy. When new life is sparked, the old woman grabs a spoonful of the energy, and puts it into the new life. Now, that singel spoonful contains millions of pieces of energy from millions of sources. So in essence, a new life, is only a collection of those before it. This allows for both reincarnation, and the reason why people only get bits and pieces of past lives, while being different from the person, in said past life.

There are things that can increase the odds of holding one person's energy together, when they enter this "pot" in death.

When people have gone through great trauma, or significant events, it helps to keep the energy of that person together, as they move through the pot of energy. So they next time the old woman picks a spoonful of energy out of the pot, the majority of the spoonful, may be from one source, since that energy has clumped together, for lack of a better term.

This is why some people are said to have "old souls" because they have retained, at least in part, the experiences and knowledge from a soul that managed to clump together, rather then fully disperse into the universal energy flow... aka the pot.


But thats just my two cents...

Sachiel
02-18-2009, 01:06 AM
I think that the human form is a sort of trinity of body, spirit, and soul. The body dies, the spirit is left as a semi-intelligent shell (a ghost) and the soul remains sentient and either ascends somewhere or reincarnates.

My thinking there comes from some ghost experiences... they're often fragmented if they appear in grave settings or necromantic workings, but when they take the form as a sentient being that resembles a deceased person, I've found them to not be limited to their past self.

Lady Dunsany
02-18-2009, 06:17 PM
The Hunter Said. There is one thing you can get when you drink blood, even if your a vampire. STI's and STD's, proven fact, occult aside those are the ropes.

Lady Dunsany said. The Vampires I know who have donors have the blood tested every week or they drink blood from the butchers. If you do take chances without thinking yes you can get all sorts of diseases. It is indeed a chance on takes.

morrigan raven moon
02-18-2009, 06:33 PM
There is one thing you can get when you drink blood, even if your a vampire. STI's and STD's, proven fact, occult aside those are the ropes.

The Vampires I know who have donors have the blood tested every week or they drink blood from the butchers. If you do take chances without thinking yes you can get all sorts of diseases. It is indeed a chance on takes.

yes i agree. i have found a wedsite that caters to vampires by testing the donors blood before the vampires get it. i will find the site and try to post it with the permison of the mod..

Harlock
02-18-2009, 08:08 PM
im not going to go too far into the blood thing, but its very essential you check the donors blood, like stated above there are many deseases but some types of vamps need blood so therefore you have to be careful

StarlessAeon
02-19-2009, 01:11 AM
Not all Vampires drink blood...

Lady Dunsany
02-19-2009, 10:26 AM
I know.......

Harlock
02-19-2009, 10:56 AM
Not all Vampires drink blood...

true but were just talking about sanguarian atm but yes you are right there are alot of types of vamps out there

Lokia_Zos
03-01-2009, 09:28 AM
I believe we are the body, and the body is higher than any conception of the soul (which I believe doesn't exist...the Buddhists found that one out a long time ago, and you can check for yourself. It just doesn't make sense)

The Body to me includes the astral double, though I think this is a creation we make ourselves. The body also includes the mind, both conscious and subconscious, sub being superior at least in the occult. This constantly changing mind creates another body at death, that is born. You only have limited control of this though, it being created by the subconscious mind...past karma and such has more control than anything. However, those who understand their subconscious mind have more control.

Darknight
03-02-2009, 05:10 AM
but whether you go the the other world heaven or are earth bound depends on the type of death that is incured

a very bad accident say where you are violently thrown from your body and don't realize that you are not dead and are earth bound aimlessly walking this earth plane compared to a natural death say non violent death

Please state what a natural death is... As far as automobile accidents to me this would not be natural.

As far as what you have stated I must say I have heard this as well.. I have it to an understanding that a good percent of spirits, entities, ghosts etc are indeed still living like they normally would without the realization they are dead.

Wouldn't this fact prove an afterlife exists

Lady Dunsany
03-02-2009, 10:23 AM
I can answer that, yes there is an afterlife or what you call the other side. Some would call it one of the peaceful realms of the astral world. I do not know what Odin means as a natural death, maybe not murdered, or in a terrible accident. I would think all death is not natural or perhaps it is natural as that is the next progression. I have stated I live in a house on a vortex and the spirits move in and out at will, but they are not earth bound as they know where they belong , they like to visit. I have encountered one's who have been earth bound some nasty some just lost, and sent them on their next journey.

Darknight
03-03-2009, 04:05 PM
Must be scary sometimes. Letting all this activity come and visit you. Well suppose seeing as a its a vortex you have no choice unless you wanted to close it down.

Strider
03-03-2009, 04:31 PM
Personaly I believe that it is possible to create an "afterlife" during ones causal life and transfer consciousness to this at the point of physical death, and that this "afterlife" is not place as such but a new mode of Being. The Immortal..

Darknight
03-03-2009, 05:03 PM
Stupid question but one that sparks my curiosity. On this subject do you think its possible that spirits that are in the astral realm can interact with each other? Or is this meeting between spirits different, I'm not sure if the spirits are separated and segregated by energy level. (Not sure if that makes any sense if not let me know.)

Lady Dunsany
03-03-2009, 06:11 PM
Must be scary sometimes. Letting all this activity come and visit you. Well suppose seeing as a its a vortex you have no choice unless you wanted to close it down.

I could close it down, but I have been living with it for sixteen years and so far it has been interesting and except for a few tossed coffee cups and other items they have actually been rather quiet lately, just floating in aad out. I do not know what will happen when we decide to sell the house. I will just have to take them with me I suppose.

Lady Dunsany
03-03-2009, 06:18 PM
Stupid question but one that sparks my curiosity. On this subject do you think its possible that spirits that are in the astral realm can interact with each other? Or is this meeting between spirits different, I'm not sure if the spirits are separated and segregated by energy level. (Not sure if that makes any sense if not let me know.)

It does make sense, because there are so many realms in the astral world most of the one's who are in each realm usually stay in their own realms, I have never seen any shells in the divine astral world, and I have not seen any divine astral bodies in the lower realms. The lower ones can not penetrate the higher as they are not on the same hierarchy. I would hate to use the word segregated, so maybe it would be better to say, they all like their own neighborhoods. However when I have wandered into the lower realms and have been attacked, I have had to get myself out of the mess, unless I call on friends who come and help me out. It makes me aware of how careful I must be at night as when you are tired or ill, you do not have the sense of protection you would usually have if you were better prepared. I hope this makes a little sense. I tend to ramble occasionally.

Falhalterra
03-06-2009, 01:26 AM
I do believe in souls and the afterlife. I get my inspiration from "What Dreams May Come."

Our physical body is our vehicle and our soul is the plane. I believe Astral Projection and Travel is quite useful to use to be able to experience what it is like to travel in spirit. I've only gotten so far into such a meditation, but when I do, afterward I feel like nothing is impossible.

Others who connect with me call me an old soul. I determine that by what I've experienced, how I judge others, how I act, and what I have experienced but know already. I have my quirks.

To continue about the movie I mentioned, you have the control to create what you want in your afterlife. But it is your soul/high spirit that chooses if you will endure another human life, stay, or transcend.

There was one vision I had while listening to Ozzy Osbourne's "See You On the Other Side." It was able to explain to me that when I went through this one portal; the imagery being trees and portals between them, it brought me to an experience I had when I was like...4 or 5. In that experience, I had this feeling of being dropped back to earth, and I awoke abruptly in my grandparent's bed. It felt like I had past the years when I wasn't as aware and came into maturity; being able to understand things more deeply and question the afterlife and where I am on my path. It seems strange, but that was what I was into. I grew up with Tarot cards, Wiccan books, stones and candle magick, yet I played the facade of a good Baptist Christian girl until my age of reason at 11 or 12.

Bad way to end what I felt...lol, but hopefully that keeps anyone interested. My experiences are everyone's stories.

Strider
04-12-2009, 01:57 AM
Supose this is just plain weird? :D


Introduction to immortality

Every person is composed of a multitude of different parts, and this has nothing to with the biological structure of the body. Because so often I talk of concepts which have never before been publicly known, I must either invent new words to describe them or must use an existing word in a new context. These "parts" I will call "cells" but it must be understood that I am not referring to the physical body. These cells cannot be identified by any scientific apparatus.

The cells which make up the individual are, on his death, returned to a central store or pool. They are energy, and energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely changed. As each baby is born, sufficient cells are scooped out of the pool to make up that baby, and that same number of cells will be with him for all of his life. The "scooping" is entirely indiscriminate, so you are composed of a mixture of cells from many different lives. Sometimes you become aware of one or more of these cells, and it is this which has given rise to the belief in reincarnation. A strong empathy with a certain era or events is a good indication that one or more of your cells lives at that time. You as an individual were not there, because the mixture of cells which makes up you, has never been brought together before. The memory is real, but it applies only to part of you.

The first step is to become aware of all your cells, all the different parts which have come together to make up this being who is now living. Identifying the first few may be easy, but there are many which do not make their presence felt, and you must know them all. Without this knowledge, you will not be able to keep all your cells together, when, under normal circumstances, they should be returned to the pool, that is, when you die.

By keeping all your cells together into the next life, returning via birth as a whole being instead of splitting into many unconnected parts, you retain all the knowledge and abilities acquired during the previous life, in fact, during all the lives since you became able to retain control of your own parts or "cells". This is the reality of Immortality, and is the path of the Adept.

Anonymous article taken from the Dark Lily Journal No 2, Society of Dark Lily (London 1987).

No? Yes?

isis
04-12-2009, 08:50 AM
Supose this is just plain weird? :D


Introduction to immortality

Every person is composed of a multitude of different parts, and this has nothing to with the biological structure of the body. Because so often I talk of concepts which have never before been publicly known, I must either invent new words to describe them or must use an existing word in a new context. These "parts" I will call "cells" but it must be understood that I am not referring to the physical body. These cells cannot be identified by any scientific apparatus.

The cells which make up the individual are, on his death, returned to a central store or pool. They are energy, and energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely changed. As each baby is born, sufficient cells are scooped out of the pool to make up that baby, and that same number of cells will be with him for all of his life. The "scooping" is entirely indiscriminate, so you are composed of a mixture of cells from many different lives. Sometimes you become aware of one or more of these cells, and it is this which has given rise to the belief in reincarnation. A strong empathy with a certain era or events is a good indication that one or more of your cells lives at that time. You as an individual were not there, because the mixture of cells which makes up you, has never been brought together before. The memory is real, but it applies only to part of you.

The first step is to become aware of all your cells, all the different parts which have come together to make up this being who is now living. Identifying the first few may be easy, but there are many which do not make their presence felt, and you must know them all. Without this knowledge, you will not be able to keep all your cells together, when, under normal circumstances, they should be returned to the pool, that is, when you die.

By keeping all your cells together into the next life, returning via birth as a whole being instead of splitting into many unconnected parts, you retain all the knowledge and abilities acquired during the previous life, in fact, during all the lives since you became able to retain control of your own parts or "cells". This is the reality of Immortality, and is the path of the Adept.

Anonymous article taken from the Dark Lily Journal No 2, Society of Dark Lily (London 1987).

No? Yes?

i would have to say yes cause i have seen and felt it, and i have a twisted senceof hummer.

Strider
04-12-2009, 09:06 AM
You not only retain all the knowledge you retain the personality you had before you die. Dying does not make you a saint, if you were nasty you will still be nasty.

But is not the "personality" something that is developed/created throughout ones lifetime and transient in most cases? (unless it has been "solidified" by esoteric training to a point beyond mere persona, and integrated with the essence to establish some kind of perminence), and therefore lost to the changes of transition between the manifestations?
And surely "dying" does make you a "saint" in the sense that all earthly relavences are done with, unless one believes that raw energy can somehow retain such things as conscience, guilt, remorse, and other such temporary misshaps?
Not saying i agree or disagree, Lady D, just thought id play "devil`s advocate" and see what came up so to speak.

Innocent
04-12-2009, 02:45 PM
Even though I'm quite late on this I thought I should add my opinions. There is a theory that I heard from a friend. That only vampires have immortal souls and they continue to live in the human world. My theory is that only otherkins have immortal souls that travels in realms to find their next resting place, be it in the human world or another or they can chose to stay as a spirit. Humans on the other hand only becomes spirits.

VIRAL
04-12-2009, 04:41 PM
there are many things that can happen to us after we die. eventally some souls get bored and surrender to oblivion, but there is reincarnation and also metempsychosis, where your mind makes the transition intact. vampires, in the classical sense were spirits themselves, it was only recently that we got the notion that vampires were stuck on the carnal plane. like mummies, the classical vampire was a wandering spirit that was connected to their body but not confined to it. unlike mummies (as far as we know) vampires fed on life energy, then referred to as "blood".

Strider
04-12-2009, 09:24 PM
You have to look at it this way personality is the lower self and if you have not striven to make yourself better or just evolve in your evolutionary process, when you die, your shell still retains the product of your personality. I have been working with spirits good and bad and in every realm since I was five and there are so many layers to a person and so many realms that spirits abide in I would never be able to explain it to you, unless you actually come and visit yourself. This is why we run into the monsters of the ID when we astral travel. As I said my house sits on a on vortex and the spirits move in and out and are very agreeable. The spirits I had a time with were a man who murdered two little girls and a woman. We managed to send the little girls and the woman to the other side, but the man would not go. He was a nasty bugger and it took two weeks. Now I can only tell you what I know and have experienced but I can not make you believe me, although I am not the only one who has experienced the phenomena at my house. I choose to live here and while it is not the most peaceful it is interesting. We all have our beliefs and truths, as it should be, it is what makes us individuals. I am only speaking from my work with spirits and such.

Thank you for your insight/views here, I am still working on a complete take on these things. Maybe the shells and monsters you mention are quite separate from any Immortal potentialities and have no other use than the one they served whilst alive, being "character loops" trapped between states, and any "life force" being dispersed back to the "source" - however one cares to perceive this. I am undecided here.
Also, maybe there is a part of the mind that is Immortal by default and it would then be a case of integrating a fully developed Self with this "spark of life" What we do in magick to explore the "many layers" that you mention would be this development, and to draw them out and temper them into a single vector would enable a consciousness to see and resonate with this "life force"/inherent permanence etc. without the distortions and abstractions of a fragmented psyche, and enable a drawing in and an increase of this "life force" (or an expansion of consciousness within its realms), eventually establishing the balance needed to transfer consciousness into the realms of the Immortals upon physical death, bringing about such a continuation of this "diamond self" - or at least of its unique wyrd/destiny etc.? I suppose this would make the Immortal and the afterlife one and the same though.
No doubt any more personal takes I have will be fleshed out and developed further as time goes bye
Your experiences are fascinating Lady Dunsany, and when I skip over the pond this year I may take you up on that visit :D

shintashi
04-13-2009, 08:02 AM
Suppose for a moment we begin by defining Truth. Truth is Ultimate Reality. It may contain change within it, as a human being's blood circulates through the body, but as the flow of blood does not render someone other than human, so likewise the nature of Truth, even containing change, remains immutable - absolute. It is the non temperary nature of Truth that most of us are acquainted with, yet how much in this universe is truly permanent?

We call the opposite of truth a lie. A variant of lie is deception, and a form of deception is illusion, or delusion. If you watch a snow flake land, you realize pretty quickly its transitory - impermanent. A Snow flake is not immortal. Mosquitos live only a little longer than snowflakes - several days at best, clearly not immortal, but in not lasting, do they also contain an element of deception? An illusion?

In the grand scheme of things, the answer is yes. A mosquito from 20 years ago is probably in 20,000 or more places today, in Soda, in gas tanks, in some little boy's arm, and the air you and I breath. Trees live longer but end up burned down after lightning strikes or converted into Lumber. They come to pass. It is said anything which has a beginning, must have an end. For this reason, all mortals are fated to die.

This is where the logic becomes interesting. Some belief systems teach transmigration of the soul, pre existence, or past lives. Some even teach the spirit within a body - or perhaps the spirit creating the body - is immortal, and eternal. If this is the case (and it would certainly account for the strange talents such as Mozart) then while our physical bodies begin by being born, and end with death, our experiences of mortality have a beginning at birth and...

END, with death. If mortality has a beginning, then Mortality has an end. But if immortality has no beginning, then immortality has no end, and Life - as a mortal being, is merely the greatest illusion of all.

linmar1960
04-13-2009, 09:14 AM
I am new to the occult but have always felt a pull in this direction. I am particularly interested in Wicca, Druids and Qabala. My Grandmother is Welsh and I am from Devon. I have a good splattering of Celt in me.I firmly believe in life after death. I have had experiences that have lead me to begin to explore the occult. I am not going to mess with anything I dont know about though. I would be asking for trouble!

Strider
04-13-2009, 03:40 PM
Plenty of experience with shells and monsters me, Lady Dunsany, when I was under a belief in such waifs and strays of the nexus that is, they usually avoided any tricky business though, especially once sent spinning back off to their shoddy little "existence". Truth and its sister Correctness are occasional bedfellows for me also, like random belief, but maybe the former would have trouble on the topic of immortality and in some other areas of theoretical "occult discussion" Nevertheless, I am learning much..............and look forward to further revelations on this topic.

chronazon
04-15-2009, 06:37 AM
damn I must have lost a post in here...I have a patchy inet connect and lost the scientific explanation post I made
my universal theory of everything that puts the entire scientific american book catalog to shame is that this was a giant male space insect that died/was killed/put here by humanoids (read: the size of humans) to serve as a moon system of the entire rest of the universe, or at least this section of it, and there is one for every "universe". Its body took up the whole of the solar system, and as it curled up in a spiral, it died. see the antenna in the outer ring systems? the cyclodon being male explains the panspermia theory of life, also why microorganisms exist on earth, which kill every human and panspermia is why why life arose from this where water could exist when it coiled up and died.
any way the black hole we can see from hubble looks like a coil cylinder spiral, exactly what tobacco does to dna, dna being what makes you you as every dna is differant. tobacco therefore just is a vacumn that sucks into the next life, like dna radar.
sure it has been proven there is an afterlife, just look at Ramacharaka's Life beyond death book, that is not the point. the point is how as isolated as we are in the universe how can we incarnate somewhere else, as it obviously can never happen here again, as we do not have mechanical regenerative capacity? well they steal eggs from the female to make new nitrogen charged worlds. they have large machines that build homes automaticly, although they are manned by indentured karma servents, as well as the workers at alien boeing since there are so many worlds there. they turn things to stone, create oceans and introduce plant seed. before populating them with the next generation of humans as a favor for living out a mishapped life on earth. the pope and Christianity just want to make the earth a better place in kind of a purist way, and in this light, many christian things are ineffective, as suffering exists sure, but earth should be a better place and many lives don't work out.
the theory for earth's existance is either a rock was here and space dust collected or that pace dust just collected. f that, I can explain this more if you have any questions, gotta quit publishing this for free!&@$%!

Strider
04-15-2009, 08:43 AM
:D Chronazon is God :D

chronazon
04-15-2009, 09:40 AM
Chronazon I believe to be the alien scientist who didn't agree with the perhaps necessary creation of earth. he sets people up with the afterlife. he should be revered in Arabia, and especially everywhere. he blocks mages paths to ascension because we are on earth, our ancestors still exist practicing earth magic on the old planets and he proves it because earth thoughts are grounded in a mostly unplesant way, but always teach every otherworldly being something with just what happens
he might also create Heaven and hell for those who lived out their lives on earth
I know its hard