Spiritual Satanism

[007m]

If you can help me with some informations about this cult (the one provided by JoS)
If we have any adepts that can provide us some info, I would be glad to hear a definition of this type of satanism(in contradiction with the chrestianity and your vision of chrestianity), and to have a talk about it.

Ave

[nullbyte]

We consider Spiritual Satanism as the world's oldest & truest religion. We also consider Satan as our Creator (http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/garden.html). It pre-dated Christianity with hundreds and thounsands of years, so it's surely not a "response" to that religion. It has been loaded by massmedia, who collaborates with the Church in order to keep humanity enslaved, with hate for Satan and the demons, thinking that these entities are EVIL, UGLY and BLOODY. In fact, this is not true. And massmedia eats a lot of bullshit, we are not rebel satanists... those kids have a very bad reputation, and they deserve to die for the lack of honor they give to Satan, by making him look a monstrous bloody evil spirit. Christianity is a big HOAX!

[BadGirl]

Defining the roots of Traditional Satanism?

difficult, but we have a few ideas.


some look to Babylon, some look to the Yezzidi, some look to egypt's depiction of Set, others to Africa and expressions of Voodoun.

What is this thing that can be called True/Traditional Satanism?


for me, it's about What's Being Said that says what Satanism actually is, or was at various times- and HOW, or in What Manner is had a habit of expressing itself.

[Diabolos11]

We consider Spiritual Satanism as the world's oldest & truest religion. We also consider Satan as our Creator (http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/garden.html). It pre-dated Christianity with hundreds and thounsands of years, so


it's surely not a "response" to that religion. It has been loaded by massmedia, who collaborates with the Church in order to keep humanity enslaved, with hate for Satan and the demons, thinking that these entities are EVIL, UGLY and BLOODY. In fact, this is not true. And massmedia eats a lot of bullshit, we are not rebel satanists... those kids have a very bad reputation, and they deserve to die for the lack of honor they give to Satan, by making him look a monstrous bloody evil spirit. Christianity is a big HOAX!

But doesn't the JoS claim Satan is an extraterrestrial called Enki, which is a Sumerian deity? Isn't this just a case of going one step further back then the Temple of Set to then claim your religion as the oldest and truest? As if the age of something makes it more true?

[007m]

after I spent some time and after i had a self talk i came to a conclusion: This life and all it's aspects are too complicated. If the things would have been just like JoS, christian curch, etc. are saying, it would probably be Ok.
But there is no way that the things are so simple. I think the only key to the answer is us. Only us can find the answer and nobody else should influence our opinion. Neither a corrupt curch or a satanic web-site.
So now I seek knowledge only for some personal research, general culture and history links.
Thanks for your opinions.

[Diabolos11]

after I spent some time and after i had a self talk i came to a conclusion: This life and all it's aspects are too complicated. If the things would have been just like JoS, christian curch, etc. are saying, it would probably be Ok.
But there is no way that the things are so simple. I think the only key to the answer is us. Only us can find the answer and nobody else should influence our opinion. Neither a corrupt curch or a satanic web-site.
So now I seek knowledge only for some personal research, general culture and history links.
Thanks for your opinions.

But people like simplicity, this is why the JoS have so many people on their e-group (Lots of teens at least!), this is why the abrahamic religions are so big, read a book, believe it's true, follow it (as much as you can, but don't worry if you don't you can alway's repent!), do as the priests etc say and heh presto heaven is yours.

But yes study, research and then practice are the way.

[nephilim]

In it's essence it isn't anti-christian as the church for a long while preached about satan. No good without evil. Do anyone know if Satan is on earth these days? I know he was once god's most beloved angel. Maybe God has forgiven him and sent him to earth. In my county bestowed of woods and mountains he has long been part of folk legend. A fiddle player he sometimes is portrayed and he has cloves for feet. Has any of you ever seen him? I think before you consider Satan anti-christian you should know he has served church for many a century. Is satan the horned one? Do you have satanic mass included a man with a goat's head on his head and twelve women making a coven? In other words how do you relate to this archangel? If anyone here knows of modern prophecies, signs, sightings or other magical phenomenon relating to Satan please do inform me.

I bid you a further good night.

[Breath is Sacred]

I stumbled upon the JoS site a year ago and at first i was facinated, mostly with the Power Meditations and the occult information pertaining to the human body. Then i started reading the origins and found that many of them were perversions of previous religions, mostly egyption and sumerian. for example the serpent was originally symbolic of the union between the heavens (the sky/universe) and earth, as it's the clocest you can physically get the earth whilst still being etherically linked to the skies.

After a while, an old friend of mine and myself went through and debunked much of the supposed origins of this religion, much as we had done with many other religions and came to the conclusion that:

it's very easy to manipulate history to suit your own means, and also to convince others seeking truth and a sense of belonging that it all ties into your religion. but your are doing yourself more damage than good.

but if you still wish to be apart of this group, who am i to stop you?


basically whatever works for you is cool, i'm not one to judge. but never give away your energy, Self or life to anyone!

[007m]

You got me wrong... I actually have the same opinion about this cult... It's using ancient religions and general magic concepts for manipulating(just like Christianity does, but jos does it in the "hardcore" way).
@nephilim
Lucifer was banished from heaven before the church appeared. Even before the material world was created.
+ I don't believe in all the bible's stories. I think Christianity was good for manipulating masses and giving them hope. Certainly the things are not going as the bible says. I only know that in this universe, dualism must exist. And I am not talking about good and evil. We decide what is good and what is evil. More than sure there is a supreme energy that rules everything, but I don't believe that this energy is the Christian God, or whatever.

[psi-bot]

I also agree with She Devil and understand and believe that the shamanistic system is the oldest, there is proof that all other religions including pagan stemmed from this idealistic animal cryptozoological system, no offence ;)

[ZeldaFitz]

I have to agree. I have a good friend who is a true Shaman from the Amazon, and if anyone knows it would be Constantine.

[nephilim]

Lucifer is by definition an Etiopian king crucified up-side-down. A saint to some.

Satan we all know who is.

Loyalty to the word isn't really the modern fashion of reaching an understanding.

[nephilim]

):
Sorry posted wrong here...as you understand...

[Azaziel]

but never give away your energy, Self or life to anyone!

That's all very noble, but don't you trade your energy every day of your life? Trading energy is what is called 'earning a living'.

Why do you think it is better to trade energy for your time and effort in whatever your physical career is, than say, fucking the Devil?

I suspect that you are bringing your Christian morality into it, which is why you feel the need to preach about your own inhibitions as a Truth; a Truth which isn't necessarily true for anyone else.

[nephilim]

I've read a book about this. Which described folk with black aura absorbing energy from earth. These were considered evil. However don't you think that energy thing is something of scheme? Well im not sure really. Two days ago I managed to produce electricity from my hand while petting my cat (sofus). Imagine training this power to cast lightning from your hands. Maybe it is possible?

Or it might not be a power yet only a phenomenon.

If you know anything about this please inform me.

-Thirgood

[Azaziel]

I don't see how you can seriously confuse static electricity with spiritual energy. Are you making a joke?

I am talking about the Universal energy, focused through kundalini.

There are no weird people with 'black auras' walking around. We are all part of the human family, all constructed in the physical the same way.

[nephilim]

How would you describe this energy? Is it lifeforce? And is it possible to conserve or consume in any manner? Can it be touched, felt or seen? Does it flow from spirits or God (gods)?

Is it love? Is it soul? Is it life?

I must think now of the fountain of youth which to this day hasn't been found. The all time dream of eternal life. Do you think it is possible?

-Thirgood

[Azaziel]

Yes, it is life force in the same way that all energy is life force, it obeys the Universal law which states that energy is always conserved. It swirls in vortices on the astral. It is the great standing wave in which you exist; the entity we call The Universe. It intersects the physical plane to produce a holograph, that which we call reality.

The Fountain of Youth is consciousness itself.

[Azaziel]

No it isn't. That is just metaphorical mumbo jumbo. The fountain of youth, elixir of life, the philosophers stone and so on are not inner processes like modern magicians and alchemists who can not get the real thing to work so popularly like to claim. Same thing with demons and many other things. They are real things that do exist. Perhaps not in the same way as described in myth and legend but none the less they exist.

You will be able to read about the fountain of youth and the elixir of life in an essay I have written for the upcoming anthology by Avalonia books called "From a Drop of Water". My essay is called "A flow of water thru the Grimoire world". The essay examines the use of water in the Grimoires and its magical operations. The book should be out at the end of this year.

Are you suggesting that consciousness is not real and does not exist?

Have you considered that modern magicians have found that magick works very well after all? I suggest it is you who cannot get anything to work.

[Azaziel]

So far your argument has no substance but I have not lost faith in you and eagerly look forward to learning how you effectively manipulate your own experience of reality. Or does reality manipulate you?

[Azaziel]

Next year you can read about the work I do with grimoire magic

Based on your track record so far I am not sure you actually have anything to teach that is worth learning.



that to me is not magic at all. It is simple energy manipulation.

What is the difference between energy manipulation and 'magic'?

[Azaziel]

People far more knowledgeable then you and very famous disagree with you on that so I really do not care to much what you believe. Also the book is aimed at Grimoire magicians so I doubt that includes you anyway. Pretty much all modern magicians think the way you do. It would do you good to study the works of Dr Joseph Lisiewski.

The difference is obvious for someone who has studied older western magic. Energy manipulation like Ki will not be able to make you get material things, change feelings, find you treasure, summon demons or angels to help you or any of the other wonderful things that magic can do for you.

A hint:) The difference lays in the old definition of magic from Zorastian times and the not generally accepted definition that Crowley used. There is one major difference in those two definitions.

Your vagueness betrays your confidence. Unless you are going to put out and say something constructive I am going to find it difficult to give you any credence at all, hint or no hint. There are no secrets in occultism and your 'hint' is insulting, especially coming from someone who is clearly not more knowledgeable than the rest of us.

All I get from you is that you have a vague idea about the relationship between reality and magick but there is no depth. I think you are an inarticulate fraud who can't sell books but likes to pretend he knows it all.

[Azaziel]

LOL nothing of what I say is secret at all. Like you say there are no big secrets in the occult anymore. The difference lay in what you read and how you define things. Something you seem to not understand or even be aware of. Anyone studying the grimoires would know what I am saying in a heart beat. Seeing how unfamiliar you are with old magic is rather amusing really.

Only reason I am messing with you was to hopefully make you see two things without me having to tell you straight out. First is that you express your self in posts that your opinion is absolute proof truth which is rather funny in the concept of magic and occultism. The other thing was to make you realize that you really do not know as much as you think. Something you have managed to show at least me perfectly but not realized your self yet.

A tip is to just tell your opinion on things without making it sound as your telling everyone that their way of doing it is completely wrong. I have done that to you for a while now and I hope you realize how annoying it is and how silly it makes it sound.

Anyway now I am gonna cook dinner so have a great Halloween:)

I have not offered proof of anything so far, but you have: didn't you defend and try to quantify your magic spell by saying that it earned you $70k? Yes you did:

http://www.occultforums.net/free-spells/2093-you-people-want-spell-actually-works.html

I also did not say that you are doing 'it' wrong. I merely asked you to post something meaningful to describe your point of view rather than just posting smoke and mirrors. Until you do, you are just avoiding the issue and continuing to lose creditability.

I bet your Swedish ego is smarting. It might help if you understood how your old recipes work.

[ZeldaFitz]

I have to say MrK is correct in probably being one of the greatest authorities on Grimoire magick, and does indeed know his stuff. As far as famous people yes he is held in high esteem. How do I know, we are friends with the same people. The problem with all of this is the constant barrage of people wanting to know the secret, there is no secret and if there is it is within. All comes from out subconscious dark and light and it is where we draw our knowledge, our power. I hate the word magick, but until I can think of a better one, I guess it will have to suffice. I have a friend who called the Goetia and Enochian the monsters of the ID, it means they are us, and stem from our ability to manifest our deepest and darkest fears. I work with both, and they are not nasty at all, if you respect and do not try to control, as it is trying to control ones ego, fears, and idiosyncrasies, but i digress. MrK enjoy your dinner, I am off to eat drink and be merry, and perhaps cause a bit of chaos along the way. :D

[Azaziel]

I have to say MrK is correct in probably being one of the greatest authorities on Grimoire magick, and does indeed know his stuff. As far as famous people yes he is held in high esteem. How do I know, we are friends with the same people. The problem with all of this is the constant barrage of people wanting to know the secret, there is no secret and if there is it is within. All comes from out subconscious dark and light and it is where we draw our knowledge, our power. I hate the word magick, but until I can think of a better one, I guess it will have to suffice. I have a friend who called the Goetia and Enochian the monsters of the ID, it means they are us, and stem from our ability to manifest out deepest and darkest fears. I work with both, and they are not nasty at all, if you respect and do not try to control, as it is trying to control ones ego, fears, and idiosyncrasies, but i digress. MrK enjoy your dinner, I am off to eat drink and be merry, and perhaps cause a bit of chaos along the way. :D

I agree with much of what you are saying, but so far MrK is trying to give himself a sense of self-importance by suggesting he has superior knowledge and he has also pointed away from looking within. So far he just comes across as a Grimoirian bigot, but I am hoping that will change.

[ZeldaFitz]

You just have to get to know him.

[Azaziel]

Superior knowledge? Well I have probably studied grimoires more then most people but everyone can do that:) So superior in a way perhaps but others know even more then I do. People like David Rankine, Stephen Skinner, Joseph Peterson and so on are the super experts at it.

As I said you have come across as a new age magician bigot so I gave you the same treatment to hopefully make you see how irritating it is which it seems like you have understood. You failed to realize I was trying to teach you a lesson though:)

Actually I am not a new ager at all. The fact that you make immediate assumptions about new members on this forum points to your own personality shortfalls.

And I did not ask you for a lesson. After all, you still haven't convinced me that you know whereof you talk.

[ZeldaFitz]

He does, he does.

[Azaziel]

He does, he does.

How can you tell?

[ZeldaFitz]

Oy Vey! I am off to watch the NCIS marathon. Bye boys!

[Azaziel]

Ohh you are. Your ideas that you have expressed on the forum clearly does identify you as being in the new age area. To make my self totally clear I am not talking about the new age movement that began in the 60's or something like that now. I am talking about the new age within the occult and western magic that started much earlier. Most people will contribute Blavatsky as the initiator and Crowley as the one who gave it form. I did hear an interesting theory on this that identify Eliphas Levi and his interpretation of mesmerism as the initiator a while back. Not having read enough on mesmerism to validate the theory I cant say if it is good or not though but it sure was interesting.

You might also want to notice my constant mentioning of western magic and not magic in general. One of the things considering new age within magic being the mixing of western and eastern techniques.

Ohh and to be honest the only way to convince you of anything is if you read what I have read. I have suggested you read the works of Dr Joseph Lisiewski and that is still good advice. Not enough for us to be able to have a meaningful discussion perhaps but a step in the right direction. This is a constant problem when discussing things like this. For two people to be able to have a meaningful discussion on a topic like this we need to have common ground. Look at it like this. Two PC experts can discuss PC's with each other without any trouble. They can even discuss servers with each other. None of them will be able to discuss servers with a server expert without the server expert having to explain everything in terms that relates to servers. Same goes for the server expert with PC's. None of them will be able to discuss office with a normal user if they have not used office.

So for us to be able to discuss this it is quite obvious you need to either read a whole lot of books or for me to teach you the stuff I know (which I have no intention to do). I make this assumption based on the fact that you seem to have no idea about what I have been talking about or you are just pretending to be ignorant of it. We simply build our opinions from two incompatible points. Like a PC and a server expert.

We can safely say that I won that one.

[007m]

ok now, can you stop offtopic in my thread, please?

[Thetalpha]

Now who on Earth told you that you own a thread simply cause you started it?

[007m]

Now who on Earth told you that you own a thread simply cause you started it?
I see you are not used with the forums, and i get it. But please, don't start an arguing here.
I can request anytime for closing this topic, but i don't want to.
So, any other on topic opinions?

[joserinfans]

great discussion... indeed

[RavenWulf]

In my county bestowed of woods and mountains he has long been part of folk legend. A fiddle player he sometimes is portrayed and he has cloves for feet.

One thing that I have learned is that Baphomet (the hooved one) is often traced back to Pan, and that that's one belief for where he got his appearance. It could be wrong, but either way, it's more information. A good website for anyone studying SS is joyofsatan.com.

[devakxes]

Not really a good website, considering they lie and they are neo-nazis. But what can I say... if you want to start a new xian regime except do it in the name of Satan - have fun.

[RavenWulf]

I disagree for one reason, and that is because much of what they say on their site is accurate. I don't like the spin they put on it, but historically speaking they are quite helpful. Some of the Daemonology on their site is interesting as well. However, after i satisfied my thirst for knowledge on SS I have moved on to different areas of study. I am now currently Learning what I can about Chaos Magick. One thing i found odd though about Satanism is when I evoked the Daemon Abraxas. It was a shocking experience and most eye opening. Too many thoughts filled my head and the energy in my house still scares most soft Wiccans and such away. They find it to be creepy.

[Sweet]

Just dont perform the dedication ritual, on that site.