Reality Manipulation Theory.

[Windmaster]

Well, i have a theory...if one becomes powerful enough in the world of magick i believe they'd be able to bend reality how ever they wished, and without wait Intantly! With out wait. And that you'd be able to control things around you and be able to manipulate the elements possibly, but it all depended on how strongly you believe in your OWN powers.

So i'd like to hear all of your opinions on this matter.

I'm going to post a few more of my ideas.

[Plarkenstorf]

If you're manipulating physical systems you're going to have to deal with their laws.

Reading more science could help.

[Windmaster]

Well...from what i've read the world around us is only the world we create and live in together with the rest of the world, and that each person has a effect on the world.

So if you are personaly powerful you could theoreticly have a greater effect then "Averege Joe"

And that's my idea... And i would like to do some field tests. but only after i have more experience.

[Plarkenstorf]

Solipsism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism)

If all is what you envision, and nothing more, the only thing which could stop you would be self imposition. Overcome that and soar, if you can.

[Windmaster]

This.

This is simply the way things work. Everything is a factor of probability and can be quantified, that is to say you can put numerical odds on any given event that occurs within space-time as we know it. You can't break the rules, but you can push the probabilities in your favor. In fact I shudder to think what would happen if you did break the actual physical laws that govern space-time. Given that every particle from the sub atomic upwards affects every other particle by association then one break in the chain could actually cause great harm to the structure of existence as we know it. You could undo the speed bumps that slow down light enough to make everything we think of as real. Who knows. That's the rub there. No one can know. Even the finest brain couldn't possibly calculate all the myriad vectors that spawn off the tiniest sub atomic movement. You could set all the world's super computers to the task of factoring the ripple effect based on the positions of electrons within the electron cloud of one atom and they wouldn't be able to finish before our sun swallowed this rock we live on.

You have to know the rules and how to bend them. The more you know about your medium the better your artistry with it and the less liekly you are to have some sort of catastrophe happen. I highly doubt that you, or anyone, will ever achieve the necessary level of ability to actually break the rules so don't bust your conk too much trying. Try to understand the nature of reality and then try to make it your own, but not with whips and chains instead with gentle nudges and careful carresses.

Vir Sapiens You have a very good point, But! who can predict the ripple effect? i mean every day we do somthing no matter how minor or simple it dramaticly and or minorly effects our lives and the people we interact with...Say you pick up the phone and talk for like...ten minutes before you leave to get on the bus. and the other possibilty is you don't talk on the phone because you leave minute early, now you pass totaly different people and see different things on the way to the bus then you would have if you'd have stayed ten extra minutes so there for your experience would be different. and that effects your life, no matter how small...
I don't know where i was going with that though, hehe....

But anyway what i'm saying is EVEN if some one was able to do what i'm talking about they'd be smart enough or powerful enough to be able to calculate what would happen and or do certain little things to 'cause what they really want...



use the 4 elements in my method. Some may want to try 5 using steal. Remember the world is based off of elements. You learn to control and combine the elements then you make up the laws.


I don't remember anyone ever saying the world was based off the elements. Well it is, but not 5 (I'm asuming you're talking about Earth, Fire, water, Wind/weather, Light, and Dark. Which are the most comenly used and the last two aren't even elements.) And the "Laws" are already made you can't Simply improve upon what has been laid down by nature or some higher being? can you? i'm saying Manipulate the laws that are already in place.

[Dark Wisdom]

Mindpower and your subconscious is whats important in order to manipulate life and your surroundings.Its also based on the law of attraction and willpower.energy manipulation are also important as well and belief.

[Thetalpha]

Old topic. Has been discussed over and over by occultists and media since the thrice-great. I say only three words: LAW OF ATTRACTION.

Instant manipulation of the Universe is possible at a high level of mastery of the Law of Attraction, which in a sense is Manipulative, Telepsionic (psi-bot, you're needed here) Magick. Full mind-control of the 3rd dimension.

However, not even Jehoshua ben-Yussaf (also called Jesus) reached that level. He had very good mind-control of the 3rd dimension and perhaps partial mind-control of the 4th. Moses was even better, but I doubt he could have changed something all to big. Let me explain what that means:

No mind-control, 3rd dimension: The only change one can make in the universe is physical, eg. by kicking away a stone. Ordinary people and animals.

Partial mind-control, 3rd dimension: From beginner to advanced magicians, as well as Law of Attraction applicants.

Good mind-control, 3rd dimension: Very quick alteration of the Universe, usually within a week at the latest of applying Law of Attraction and/or Magick. My level.

Very good mind-control, 3d: Almost instant alteration of little things, eg. transforming water to wine. Control of the way energy changes into, through and out of form. Jesus.

Extraordinary mind control, 3d: Almost instant alteration of very big things, eg. splitting the sea, causing an earthquake, sending a plague of toads or grasshoppers.

Full mind-control, 3d: Deity level. Instant alteration of anything at all. Even instant destruction or creation of entire galaxy clusters.

And similar for the 4th dimension, although here you can only have 4 levels, and there is also a major difference: You can be a master of a certain level that is higher than another level, without mastering that higher level. You'll see what I mean:

No mind-control, 4d: You travel forward in time at a constant speed. Normal people and animals. I master this.

Speed mind-control, 4d: Your mind percieves time at any speed you wish to. I do not master this.

Travel mind-control, 4d: You can do mind travels involving time, i.e. do mind travels to a certain place in the 1800s, for example. I am trying to learn this.

Direction mind-control, 4d: You can go back, forth and up in time. Up is basically going 'out' of time. You exist in a certain time, then you don't, then you do. I don't master this, obviously.

Altering mind-control, 4d: You can alter the past and future in any way possible. I don't master this, that would be creepy.

Full mind-control, 4d: You can do all of these. Deity level. Not me, though, as you can see by the vast number of things I can't do.


I think I should write an eBook about this topic after I wrote about the history of the occult.

[zero]

there are many factors like astrology such as every beings powers; imagine the planets in there gravity pull, galaxy, etc. now imagine every atom; these are the odds we are against every atom and sub atom divided by infinity. perfect infinity and you have the power of creationism, and in essence god.

now image having the power to manipulate that power from the non existent. to not exist yet control existence....perfection. duality in at its best.

[Jarhog]

Good mind-control, 3rd dimension: Very quick alteration of the Universe, usually within a week at the latest of applying Law of Attraction and/or Magick. My level.



I like the way you have put things. For me the small stuff is quick and easy but I have some big things that are taking forever. I also like that you have separated physical and temporal things because I learned how to do the time stuff way before I knew what magick was. An old race car driver showed me how to alter my perception of time and it has served me well in so many things other than driving. I don't think he had any concept of it being a magickal act.




And similar for the 4th dimension, although here you can only have 4 levels, and there is also a major difference: You can be a master of a certain level that is higher than another level, without mastering that higher level. You'll see what I mean:

No mind-control, 4d: You travel forward in time at a constant speed. Normal people and animals. I master this.

Speed mind-control, 4d: Your mind percieves time at any speed you wish to. I do not master this.

Direction mind-control, 4d: You can go back, forth and up in time. Up is basically going 'out' of time. You exist in a certain time, then you don't, then you do. I don't master this, obviously.

Altering mind-control, 4d: You can alter the past and future in any way possible. I don't master this, that would be creepy.



The speed and direction control seem easy and natural to me after about 30 some odd years of doing it. The altering one is difficult to know if it has been done or not because I don't know if my perception and memory gets altered too. There is a vague notion that I have done it and the knowledge, that I can't remember where it came from, of how to do it. It is creating an image of how you want things to be and how you would be as a result then setting a jumping in point in the future so you step over into that time line at that point automatically.

[Phnouthis]

"...if one becomes powerful enough in the world of magick i believe they'd be able to bend reality how ever they wished, and without wait ]Intantly!"

Well, who knows, but I must confess that I am doubtful about whether your theory is anything more than a megalomaniacal, ego-driven fantasy motivated by and compensating for a tremendous feeling of powerlessness over the natural vicissitudes of life. Just imagine having every desire physically manifesting itself as it arose--remember, once the world begins to fulfill your every whim, your rational control mechanism will certainly dissipate (hence we call such a person who approximates to that state, but within the limits of the physical world, "dissolute"). Your environment would be an ever-shifting panoply of disorder, and assuming that you retain the essential features of your human psyche, once fear kicks in, you would only "desire" what could be literally called the nightmarish.

"With out wait. And that you'd be able to control things around you and be able to manipulate the elements possibly, but it all depended on how strongly you believe in your OWN powers."

While tripping on acid, some people have become convinced (the intensity of their belief being demonstrable de facto) that they could fly, with disastrous consequences.

So i'd like to hear all of your opinions on this matter.

[Natasha77]

This is a great topic. Thetalpha, I liked your breakdown, did you pick that up from another source or yourself?

I am not opposing the theory that such can happen. I have never met anyone who can do this. The closest I've found is Don Juan in the Castaneda series.

Solipsism is a fascinating paradigm. As a Hermetic Axiom states, "All is Mind". There is a thin line between our Psyche and the Universe At Large. Personally I believe "magick" is the highest form of Reason/Logic and that the two are not oppositional.

Very good point on that last post. Acknowledging Duality, there will be things within our power to affect and things outside of our power. There are laws, similar to physics. Imagine the world without physics, it would be madness. Thus is a world without some sort of restriction. Limitation can be just as important as being limitless. The lesser evolved Ego wants to be able to affect anything at any time. With that comes anxiety and depression. People who try to affect what is outside of their control.

Again, great rundown Thetalpha on the "levels".

All is based in the Psyche.

[Phnouthis]

I apologize if in the following I come across as disputatious, but as the reasoning process progresses dialectically, one explicates a theory by calliing into question and thence investigating one's initial hypotheses, rather than resting content with one's first rough statements on a matter.


"Instant manipulation of the Universe is possible at a high level of mastery of the Law of Attraction"

Or so we are supposing for the sake of speculation, but I personally cannot recall a single, authentic historical figure to whom such ability was ascribed (Given the fact that the veracity of even the historical assumptions behind the Exodus story are now considered extremely doubtful--e.g. the slavery of the Hebrews in Egypt--it would be preposterous to accept the reality of the miracles accounted therein with anything more than the playful suspension of disbelief with which we entertain any fairytale.). Similarly, in regard to "Jehoshua ben-Yussaf" we again uncover problems with the very historicity of an all-powerful thaumaturge; so we'll move on.

"Good mind-control, 3rd dimension: Very quick alteration of the Universe, usually within a week at the latest of applying Law of Attraction and/or Magick. My level."

By the "Law of Attraction," do you mean simply positively focusing your attention on what you want? If not, please describe the method for me.

"Almost instant alteration of little things, eg. transforming water to wine. Control of the way energy changes into, through and out of form. Jesus."

Or the gospel writers could have simply added that miracle, in their eager need to force an accordance of the story of their messiah with old testament prophecy.

"Full mind-control, 3d: Deity level. Instant alteration of anything at all. Even instant destruction or creation of entire galaxy clusters."

But through what means can you even imagine this happening? Does one concentrate so intently on a new and self-designed galaxy that it just suddenly manifests along with the necessary gravititational effects upon neighboring space-time/energy, and to the wonderment of our astronomers? What distinguishes this type of speculation from the idle fantasies of the bored and discontented?


"Speed mind-control, 4d: Your mind percieves time at any speed you wish to. I do not master this."

What you are saying can be achieved without much effort through hypnosis. But anyway: Heww! Back to reality (I felt like I was being induced to participate in some sort of role playing game). Rather than speculating so far beyond what I take to be the actual facts of our magical experiences, I think it would be more helpful first to describe what we know is possible and from there conjecturing a theoretical framework in which to speculate about how those possibilities might be maximized.

I will go first: I am quite certain that telepathic and precognitive phenomena exist. I am, however, not sure how and if they could be volitionally evinced--and the failure of scientific paranormal research to find any evidence even statistically significant gives us grounds for a mild pessissism; if, however, you are convinced that you can demonstrate such ability at will, James "The Amazing" Randi has a million dollar reward waiting for you. From my experience I have grounds to infer that telepathic phenomena at least are much more likely to manifest between parties with an already established rapport: Every close girlfriend that I've had in the last half-decade or so left me entirely convinced of the reality of the paranormal--unfortunately, I have never had the opportunity to date anyone with a firm dedication to the magical path. And yet, I once was able to "send" the month and day of my birthday to a girl whom I had just met at a coffee shop; after that feat we took the elevator into the basement storage room of the cafe and proceeded to practice a little multiplication(c:

Furthermore, I am inclined to concede the non-chance nature of some phenomena that people often hastily label as synchronicities. Nevertheless, when addressing these phenomena I am entirely skeptical of such extrapolations that contend that since a meaningfully significant mental event preceded the actual instantion of that event in external reality, our conscious thoughts create the reality around us. In my experience, there is a qualitative difference between the mental states implicated in synchronistic phenomena, and ordinary conscious thoughts or desires.

I have never been impressively successful with sigil magic, nor have I ever personally met any credible person with results contrary to my own. Additionally, I have never evoked a spirit to have it carry out my will; and I have never given the experimentation with material sorcery the diligence that it is perhaps due. Those who do have more experience or positive results with any these matters are invited to share their findings with me. It is of course hoped that they will keep their accounts truthful, cautious and self-critical.

[Natasha77]

That is a great post. I appreciate skepticism and rational thinking. From personal experience I have learned that it is up to me to prove such "magick" to myself and to what degree I am to believe. Not for others to "prove it to me".

I am also just as skeptical about Christ and the Bible.

Again, on concerning synchronicity, sigil magick, and spirits, keep a rational mind..always doubt and question...but belief is self-create.

[Phnouthis]

That is a great post. I appreciate skepticism and rational thinking. From personal experience I have learned that it is up to me to prove such "magick" to myself and to what degree I am to believe. Not for others to "prove it to me".

If you are saying that there is an irreducibly subjective component involved in the confirmation of one's magical results then I agree; though I would nonetheless encourage you not to halt your theoretic probings at this rather early point. I cannot help but to believe that the rigorous refinement of the theoretical assumptions behind our magic is so significant that it might in itself be described as an act of magic. Long ago did Heraclitus of Ephesus complain: "Though the Word [Grk: ho logos--the rational intelligibility of the cosmos] is universal, each person behaves as if he has his own individual truth." Of course, we could rightly contend against Heraclitus that the universal "Logos" is much too imense for anyone of us to understand in totality, so we must resort to filling in the blanks by weighing probabilities, or otherwise, allowing our desires to sway our judgments according to which beliefs are most likely to empower our actions towards a fulfillment of those desires. And yet, with that said, I would return to that part of the above-quoted passage where you state, "From personal experience I have learned that it is up to me to prove such "magick" to myself and to what degree I am to believe. Not for others to "prove it to me," and rebut that whatever reasons you might, in such a situation, give yourself for believing thus and so, those reasons would--assuming you were capable of a more or less exhaustive description of the relevant, underlying assumptions behind those reasons--be intelligible and open for the assessment of other rational beings, beings who may very well not have the same biases as you do (I don't mean to bully them so, but just think of the Christians(c:).

Again, concerning synchronicity, sigil magick, and spirits, keep a rational mind..always doubt and question...but belief is self-create.

No no, don't get me wrong: I do believe in meaningful coincidences (synchronicities); and I have participated in evocations with convincing results (I just didn't ask the spirit(s) to accomplish any of my worldly desires); in addition, I have also had what appeared to be results (in the magical sense) with sigils, just nothing that was so miraculous that I could offer no other plausible explanation--as is in fact the case with a variety of my telepathic occurrences.

But you raise an interesting point: that belief is in itself a creative force. Unfortunately, in a spiritual context, the word 'belief' carries a motley assortment of baggage; but I do agree with you, and hence, again, I declare the importance of theoretical investigation in the occult: after all, part of the baggage of "belief" has been a long history of an enforced self-deception.

[Natasha77]

Yes the word "belief" and even the word "faith" carry negative definitions with the many slave religions that exist. By Belief I mean it in a more personal context. As in, if someone subconsciously believes they will always be poor or a failure. Belief is rooted in the subconscious. If the subconscious believes in opposite of the consciousness, the subconscious will have it's way. The same goes with magick. If the Subconscious believes in it, then it will come to pass.

I think the biggest difference between "faith/belief" in this rather than slave religions is they believe without question. They believe even if they have absolutely no proof. At least, with those who practice magick, it is questioned.

As for experiencing events that can be easily "rationalized". I've experienced plenty of sigil magick results but haven't yet turned water to wine, lol. When I asked my teacher those questions when I was younger and she replied..."what's the practicality of doing such things?" Evoking a deity to physical manifestation when I can just as easily communicate with it without that. Much less water to wine! I've experienced events that I cannot rationalize and these events strengthen belief even against skepticism. But I can't say I want to see a full manifested anything...such would lead me to thinking I might be schitzophrenic! lol