nature

[Ravana]

I have always liked the MLO and their serious Satanism, however I have not had too much access to their teaching. At the moment I see Satan in nature through its harshness only the strong survive ect. Does anyone know how the MLO view nature, do they see the Devil in the details or is this world all just a work of the demiurge.
Any feed back from anti-cosmic brothers/sisters?

[Whore_of_the_black_abyss]

I would also love to know how anti-cosmic gnostics/Satanists view nature. Being anti-cosmic, and nature being created as a part of the cosmos, does this make anti-cosmic gnostics and Satanists anti nature?
I find myself very drawn to the 218 current and to anti-cosmic gnosticism, but I cannot find myself connected to something that does not appreciate nature. I find so much beauty and power in nature and the elements and also love working with nature as a part of my magickal workings, witchcraft etc.

I'd love to learn more about opinions regarding nature, from the view point of an anti-cosmic practitioner.

Thanks.

[Diabolos11]

I think this article from a Gnostic website may shed some light on the matter?

The Gnostic World View: A Brief Summary of Gnosticism (http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm)

The TotBL describe themselves as Gnostics with it's form in Satanism, so this article has some relevance I'd imagine. Nature in this article is considored imperfect and place of suffering, I see no reason why the TotBL wouldn't agree with this as they desire to see this cosmos and all matter in it destroyed!

For me the TotBL are a great antidote to the wishy washy theistic Satanism that plagues the net and the materialism of the CoS. I see great value in the work they are putting out, but I don't subscribe entirely to their beliefs nor feel you need to, to appreciate their work. The only one's that do are it's members.

[Ravana]

Thanks Diabolis11 that was a helpfull link.
Panparadox has been released through IXAXAAR
which is written by Vexior who is anti-cosmic and
his book is about Pan a nature god, however this book
although highly reccommended does not bring up
the issue, I may try to contact him and see if I can
get an answer from him.

[Diabolos11]

Thanks Diabolis11 that was a helpfull link.
Panparadox has been released through IXAXAAR
which is written by Vexior who is anti-cosmic and
his book is about Pan a nature god, however this book
although highly reccommended does not bring up
the issue, I may try to contact him and see if I can
get an answer from him.

Hi Ravana, You are welcome. If you do get an answer from Vexior on this matter then that would be most interesting to read. Panparadox....indeed it would appear to be! But appearences can be deceptive.

[Ravana]

I have contacted Vexior and do apologise that I have been unable to respond for a while due to having problems with logging into the forum.
I wont post his response exactly as it was a private message which I have not asked him if he minds it posting on a forum.
Basically they teach the demiurge is the creator of the cosmos, and
everything within the cosmos is his. earth and its nature
is a creation of the demiurge. Satan is of the anti-cosmic Chaos, an
acosmic and pandimensional world beyond the cosmos/universe. But Satanic
powers are intruding the cosmos with the purpose of destroying it. the
intruding powers are called anti-cosmic.
So I think it answered my question anyway.

[Ravana]

I think that we need to look at the whole picture regarding them being
anti-nature. Which would be to look at their belief and reason for the destruction of the cosmos, which would be to set us free from the tyrant called the Demiurge. I guess you get it or you dont.

[Diabolos11]

Thankyou Ravana for sharing what you could of the answer from Vexior.

[Midnight Empire]

Well, nature and everything in this universe was created from Dragon Mother Tiamat so of course their is some beauty in it. However, nothing in this physical realm is perfect, or even good in any way. The reason the demi-urge is considered foolish is simple. Look at nature, take a good deep hard look and what do you see? Suffering, death, pain and misery. Animals eat each other, natural disasters destroy the land and disease brings cruel deaths. What is there to appreciate? Sure, looking at the forest or beach may be pretty but it's just because it still has some of the original beauty of Tiamat.

[Ravana]

I like the comment Midnight Empire about nature. Also chaos will destroy nature and all the cosmos in the end, but isn’t this exactly what jesus gentle, loving, meek and mild said he was going to do?

[Midnight Empire]

Bullfrog, I have no idea what you just said. Were you having a seizure of some sort when you typed that? To be purely anti-cosmic you would think one would commit suicide though. What is the point of existing on this physical plane if it is the very essence of being a physical being that you hate? Hmmm.

[Midnight Empire]

I still have no idea what you're trying to say.

[Midnight Empire]

Why would you google my name? It's the name of a Satanic Black Metal band I play in.

[devakxes]

What I think would be important is how they define nature.

To answer the question on suicide. They probably see it as their mission as well as see it as a sort of ''honorable sacrifice''. I'm sure some of them see themselves as from the Anti-Cosmic plane and that they believe they are here to destroy everything. Thus... since it is their mission... they aren't going to kill themselves until the job is done.

[devakxes]

bullfrogrules

Your mind is a raspberry coated lollipop of joy and imagination.

[PlagueJester]

Jon_Nödtveidt of the band Dissection was a Gnostic Satanist, and he killed himself. It is said that days before his suicide he seemed stronger, more focused, and happier than ever. That's what I read anyway. He took himself out in a ritual that can only presumably have been taken from the Liber Azerate. That was the book found in front of him (though it's often poorly posted that it was the Satanic Bible.) I have the book, but it's in Swedish, so I can't tell you what ritual.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw my two cents in on the suicide subject. As far as the nature part goes, I don't really know. I would call myself an atheist more than anything, but I've recently been digging around in such things as Gnostic Satanism and the Goetia.

I actually only joined this site because I kept ending up here in searches, and it's cleverly set up to force you to join to continue reading. I have decided to join, and apparently offer my two cents as well :)

[PlagueJester]

Yeah, I suppose it would have been more proper for me to go to the introduction section, but I really didn't have any intention of doing anything but watching here anyway. Forums always end up messy with stupid arguments and things like that. But I guess it's too late, and I'm already in :)

So thank you. I look forward to learning from people and hopefully being able to add some worthy knowledge to the forums.

[RÊVE]

we argue all the time, makes for an interesting day and good for the libido. this forum is sometimes not for the faint hearted but we like it.
Boxy Boxing.

[EtuMalku]

I'd like to address the OP:

I'm not sure what anti-cosmic satanists are but I am a Setian and my view and understanding of Nature is that it is very close to the Egyptian word Neter which are Principles of the Universe personified.

The entire of the Objective Universe / Physical Universe is what all Right Hand Paths refer to as God/Divinity/ the All etc.

If we are to examine the Four Crowned Princes of Hell that are associated with the Cardinal points: North-Earth is Belial and would be associated with the physical aspects, the mundane attributes of Self.

Satan is the South-Fire and is associated with Free Will and the Pan-Desire of Self.

[just me]

I have contacted Vexior and do apologise that I have been unable to respond for a while due to having problems with logging into the forum.
I wont post his response exactly as it was a private message which I have not asked him if he minds it posting on a forum.
Basically they teach the demiurge is the creator of the cosmos, and
everything within the cosmos is his. earth and its nature
is a creation of the demiurge. Satan is of the anti-cosmic Chaos, an
acosmic and pandimensional world beyond the cosmos/universe. But Satanic
powers are intruding the cosmos with the purpose of destroying it. the
intruding powers are called anti-cosmic.
So I think it answered my question anyway.
thank you so much! I never really "got" gnostic satanism until this post.

[witch13]

Matter and the archonic aspects of nature are opposed, as they bind and limit the spirit, but the spiritual aspect of all that possesses a spiritual spark is always venerated and respected.

But, just because one respects "the prisoner" it does not mean that one also respect the prison or the prison guards (as a wise man once told me) ;)

[Ravana]

And mans inner nature ie the body of sin.
Is this the work of the demiurge or Satan.
The reason I ask is because I work within the christian
mythology and obviously the teaching of a myth
contains only so much truth and then illusion.

[KashakuTatsu]

The path I follow is not quite gnostic satanism, but it's very close in many aspects so will weigh in from the views of my path.

The teachings say that "chaos is the energy in everything, neither creative or destructive, but acts as a motivational force that keeps things from becoming stagnated. Chaos is the very essence of life. It's formless, endless, timeless, raw energy that is not bound by law (human or cosmic). To understand forever is to only understand a fraction of it's true nature. We are born from it, grow because of it, and return to it when we die. It is not to be harnessed and tamed. It is to be honoured for what it is. "

So with that said, nature is inherently chaos, especially through the beauty of the body of the dark mother Tiamat. In honouring her or the cycles of life/death by doing rituals to one side or the other as need permits utilizing the universal currents, you're honouring nature in the grand scheme of the universe, not just on this planet. This isn't the fluffy nature is all love honouring, but all the cycles of life, even the destructive force of the elements or rites to the black holes. Firestorms make great power around here for fast destructive work. I make no delusion of eternity in nature, all in the universe will be destroyed and return to the dark mists again to await another life cycle.

[Ravana]

Hi Kashakutashku, thank You for the reply.
The root of what I am really asking is this.

Gossip seems natural for man.
The bible says that the tongue is set on fire by Hell.
But is the reality that the demiurge has built this into
mans nature or is chaos at work.

Theft is natural to man and animal.
The bible condemns theft.
But is the reality that the demiurge has built it into mans nature
or is chaos at work.

The same can be said for lust, murder or the majority of other sins
listed except maybe the likes of witchcraft or idol worship which were
given by darkness according to teaching I have accepted.
My understanding is that as a Satanist we would break the laws of
god because he gave it.

Like I have said I work with the christian mythos so I need to know
in regarding matters such as sin am I just breaking a law that has been
given or am I enabling chaos to be at work by sinning, or both from a chaos gnostic world
view.

[KashakuTatsu]

The laws of the Abrahamic god are all against our very nature, if you live to embrace your nature then you're sinning. Which most of the Satanist sects do promote hedonism to various degrees. God in this mythos seems much like an angry kid in a sandbox pouting cause his little creations discovered knowledge and wanted equality. Lillith got kicked out cause she wanted to be equal to Adam, the apple and serpent are representations of wisdom, the other tree would've given then immortality... can't have that now. "Don't worship false idols (insert any deity or being other than me cause I'm insecure and need to be the only thing in the sky)".

With the idea of sin you'd be breaking rediculous laws that deny your very nature thus trying to control chaos (chaos being the chaotic spark within our blood, energy within everything/one, etc). Sinning (embracing your natural impulses, inner chaos) will be both breaking the laws and enabling chaos.

[Ravana]

Hello Kashakutatsu.
I have been looking at Your 2 posts again and what I am looking for and believe myself fits with Your comment in Your first post where You say.

Nature is inherently chaos.

This also fits well with the comment from witch13 about respecting the prisoner but not the prison or the guards, so thanks once again.

[Iza]

Nature is unkind and not perfect, as we are not perfect and are unkind at times. You have to have the balance of unkind and kind perfect and not perfect, if we don't we cease to exist.

[devakxes]

The material world and ego is considered in Gnostic Satanism to be basically a limit. This world is considered a place of suffering, and the Demi-Urge is the intelligence of this world. In order to exist, the Demi-Urge requires our imprisonment in the material world in order to be conscious - because inherently he has no consciousness.

Satan is supposed to be the anti-cosmic messiah or liberator. He has come to destroy all and bring Dies Irae. Returning all to the supreme Chaos which is the pandimensional state of being - where by one exists and does not exist at the same time. To complete this, even Satan will have to destroy himself.

This is just the gnostic satanist point of view though. I tend to agree with Iza.

[Belasko]

Who cares there is not perfect and perfect and dark and light. Too much crap is put on this subject.