is magick all evil?

[dannerz]

I've been away from the forums but i met people like harloq and i liked talking to you guys. Anyways i have a serious question:

The jehovah's witnesses teach that any psychic power or magick power a person has, is not natural to a human. They teach that any psychic power a person has, comes soully from demonic possession/influence, from fallen angels.

I dont think that is true. But it bothers me to think what if it was true, even partially true, then what? Some branches of Christianity teaches that pagans are bad and magick is all evil.

what do you think about all this, based on your personal experiences?

[ThisIsNecessary]

The Jehovah's Witnesses would love for you to believe that ANYTHING is evil accept for what THEY exclusively teach, which is not that much different from most other branches of Christianity, or organized religion in general. The funny part is, there are many religions who do not condone any kind of magick and see it as 'the Devil's Work'...and yet still have ritual blessings, exorcisms, invocations, etc etc that are all really just ceremonial magick.

Catholisicm is a good example. I do not even know much about the faith, but from the little that I have learned, many of their rites are nothing more than magick, though its in the Christian God's name of course.

When you learn more about magick in general you'll start to recognize the basic ritual components that many people use, often times they are not even aware that they are performing magick. Whenever you use your Will to focus your intent to change something metaphysically, its magick. When accompanied by some ritual, even down to something as simple as blowing out a birthday candle, you are using magick.

The Christians will condemn you for using these arts in any form, but the fact is that magick has been used long before the Christians even existed. They are expert finger pointers though, if anything.

[aurik]

Most forms of established religion claim that magic is evil. It's true that magic is powerful, and claiming it to be evil was probably a religious government's first line of defense. If nothing else, the legends of Camelot tell us what basically took place once Christianity took this angle. A bit further back, Titus Caesar actually altered Christianity quite a bit to support his beliefs, and, in fact based Christ's image on himself! If that isn't evil magic, I don't know what is.
Evil magic is when you do something to someone to control or manipulate them against their will. Sounds like most religions to me! They are really good at turning the tables and playing on your guilt. If you read the "sacred texts", you'll notice the prophets and followers performing "miracles". So, according to the holy books, magic, when aligned with a god's will, is a sacred act. Of course, you have to ask, which "god" are you aligned with? I would worry more about that, and stay clear of anyone claiming that their god is the "THEE GOD". There is only one creator, and it clearly believes in good magic.

[Ceridwen Arawn]

Magick has no stance on good or evil, it is neutral. It's the wielder that controls the intent of that power. Magick is both unequivocally beautiful and absolutely devastating, and it comes with every shade of gray as well.


There are some people who suggest that every person is capable of some psychic ability, that it all depends on the amount of activity in your brain. One main theory is that as the average person uses approximately ten percent or less of their brain, perhaps those who access more of that are privy to another "sense," this being psychic ability(ies) perhaps.

Then again my precognition was passed to me by my aunt, perhaps then there are several ways in which a person can expand their minds, so to speak.

Also much of Christianity and its traditions bear root origins in ancient Paganism, take Ireland for instance. In the early to mid eighteenth century the Christian Church was intimidated and bothered by the out-lasting bonds the people of that land had held in Paganism. Thus they began to adopt and mask many customs, holidays, and traditions. Take for instance Samhain (October 31), the ancient Celtic festival intended for remembrance of ancestors and the dead. The church declared the date as All Saint's Day, teaching that it was now a day that God permitted those departed souls to return to their decedents the eve before All Souls Day in order to remind them of their obligations to the dead.

[daecon]

Understand that JW have a number of things that are forbidden to them. My HP had a JW for a neighbor and they actually got along pretty well. He was organizing an interfaith group in support of religious tolerance to march in a flag day parade. The JW had no problem with the group or its leader, but he couldn't in good faith, march in honor of the Flag. "Worship" of a secular symbol is considered impious. It was an atheist who took the Pledge of Allegiance to the Supreme court, but the JWs have had similar controversies. They also find it difficult to become US citizens when immigrating since they can't swear an oath to support the State. They qualify as conscientious objectors for a similar reason.

That they are forbidden to have blood transfusions is well known, although they are permitted to donate (and presumably receive) bone marrow transplants. They can divorce but cannot remarry unless the divorce is for infidelity. Like many Christian groups, abortion and homosexuality are both forbidden. They don't celebrate "pagan" holidays, including both Halloween and Christmas, but also individual birthdays. All of this is necessary to be a good JW and, of course, the only way to qualify for resurrection into eternal life with Jesus.

[Gawain]

Ceridwen, you took all of the words out of my mind. I was going to post something very similar to your words. Good or Evil, are purely human concepts, used to support any given group of peoples Moral Codes.

[Azaziel]

The jehovah's witnesses teach that any psychic power or magick power a person has, is not natural to a human. They teach that any psychic power a person has, comes soully from demonic possession/influence, from fallen angels.

In my experience this is basically true. Magick taps into the world beyond death and the beings that gave us the forbidden fruit of knowledge were fallen angels.

But keep in mind that to grow spiritually or expand your own consciousness, magician know thyself! In the end, there is no getting around having to face your own demons.

[Azaziel]

Define magic.

I define magic as thinking.
If you think then you are doing magic.
Therefore if you think you are possessed by a demon.
Therefore you are evil if you think.

Problem solved.

Your definition of magick is wrong; it follows that the rest of your argument is null and void.

[zero]

this has to do with the bible I believe, there were two rogue angels that taught magic to man to see who was the follower of the god and not, really though lets look at it in another way, men in power want to keep power, and men who want power... Islam also believe this, though it has been said that Mohamed was taught the Tora from Hebrews.

the jw's ignorance in such things is obvious for there inability to distinguish the two, but like many things it depends on there meaning of such terms. That aside they probably just group it all as sacrilege, magic to them I am assuming would be anything that would equate supernatural and thus gods power.

[ZeldaFitz]

I do not believe in the word evil, took it out of my vocabulary a long time ago, but use it when I have no other options.

[ZeldaFitz]

Interesting, that means that everyone going by the definition that Crowley made up is wrong and that all of the people who follow it has none valid arguments:)

Oh yeah! Right as usual.

[ZeldaFitz]

Oh heck yeah and if anyone knows logic it is you kind sir. You are seriously misunderstood.

[zero]

Crowley was also into divine madness hail Dionysus, which according to he is that which is beyond reason like breaking the barrier to see the other side(sorry for my doors reference).

the fervor that comes but is not attained.

can we make reality or does reality make us?

[zero]

Thereby it is not religiously evil. It is then just the jews perspective, much like that of an atheist or any other religion. Also the torah must have been taught to Mohamed by a jew. the fact the follow the torah is what makes them jewish! lol

exactly and indeed, and another lol on that mater, also a bit of christianity too though.


For if you were to say the KoS you are using the power of God to command.

god has nothing to do with it in my opinion, now where's my cup.


According to a jew you should worship no god or idol other than the single making god. Thus it depends what type of magic.

elohim, arise my clay golem.

magic as I know it is making changes in ones self and or environment.

much like ZeldaFitz I too do not believe in evil or good for that matter, that said I do believe in right, success equates right. the means you decide...

I was giving history(relative) and knowledge as I know it not necessarily my beliefs.

[ZeldaFitz]

Oh I don't know about that, Anton Le Vay revered children and animals and would not allow any harm to come to them, and a lot of people considered him evil.