Tree of the knowledge of good and evil

[morningstar]

What do you think was the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil or the tree of knowledge, the forbidden fruit which led to the fall of man?

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. " (Genesis 3:22-24)

Consider the words "Behold, the man is become as one of us". I strongly think that the tree of knowledge means the power which has been taken away from us. I believe we all have psychic powers, we are almost godlike but we also have a psychic censor which doesn't allow us to tap into these powers. So maybe God didn't want everybody to be as mighty as him and hence our powers were taken away from us?

Also, if you think of it this way, most religions tell us to obliterate our ego, give up our worldly pleasures & embrace god. In a way they want us to stop thinking. And the tree of knowledge, as the name suggests corresponds to thinking & the intellect. And one cannot have an ego (by ego I mean identity) without an intellect.
So maybe God wanted us to be mindless creatures in the garden of the eden while the serpent wanted to liberate us.

One may argue about the intentions about the serpent, whether he really wanted to liberate us or to make us lose the paradise but that is another topic. MY intention is not to portray the serpent as a hero & god as a control freak but I can't help concluding this out of it.

This reminds me of the movie "The Matrix" when Morpheus offers Neo the red & the blue pill & asks him to choose one of them. If you consider this in the aspect of the fall of man, The blue pill denotes paradise in the form of bliss & ignorance, the red symbolizes liberation but accompanied with hardships.
Isn't the whole RHP based on this? on the abstainance which god wanted us to have?

One may also arge that what god was doing was not entirely evil, he knew that because of the ego there will always be conflicts. Because of our different beliefs & perceptions, there will always be disputes. Someone did say "there is enough in this world for man's need but not for his greed"
But the choice should be given to us rather than being forced upon us.

[ZeldaFitz]

One would have to believe in God to even entertain the thought. One would also have to believe in evil.

[morningstar]

I think most occultists do believe in gods & spirits, even satanists. Again I know that believing in spirits doesn't necessary believing in god. I don't believe in that subconscious mind thing, I believe that the entities exist on their own & are not a part of our sub-conscious mind .I guess the only non-believers would be chaos magicians but then I can't generalize this.What do the words YHWH mean to you? I am assuming you were speaking for yourself.

[ZeldaFitz]

After being in an order for a few years and all I had to learn, YHWH means nothing to me. I do the LBRP and all the rituals still but the word means take responsibility for your self and don't rely on any God to give you the answer. I am all that is and all that will be, and when I do my Gypsy Magick I am not under the delusion any God or being is doing the work, it is me and the elements of the Universe, who aid me in my result. I don't believe in evil, as evil is a entity or being that has not evolved.

[zero]

To me the image of the tree is just knowledge and what is knowledge? it is the discernment of things(this is not that) or buddhi intellect to be able to have a choice means there is at least two choices. This tree is a symbol of mans ability to chose for ones self. Before knowledge there is ignorance, some say ignorance is bliss for it is uncomplicated and easy for there are no choices, with knowledge comes the responsibly of ones own actions, much like a child who does not know better and an adult who should. Adam and Eve are treated as children in paradise, but once they were able to chose for themselves, they where put in the position to make there own way.

I don't use god names myself for personal reasons, but I do use words of power with meaning. A name of god is a power of god, it is said IHVH is gods complete power thus the whole of his power of creation and destruction. Its use in the lbrp is a little mundane, though like I said I do not use god names but names of power that correspond in more than an arbitrary manner.

[crowley666]

the red pill is rejecting all programed beliefs and embracing truth no matter how SEVERE it is.

[morningstar]

I must ask you this, do you think of YHWH as a tool or do you feel you can 'connect' to it?
Personally, I don't feel like worshipping YHWH coz it reminds me of religions (which I despise) & an uptight father figure & also the god who abandoned us. Though I don't have problem in using it for certain rituals.
When it comes to rituals, I actually think of the gods more as 'cosmic energies' rather than entities, if you know that I mean & I think thats what you implied in a way.


After being in an order for a few years and all I had to learn, YHWH means nothing to me. I do the LBRP and all the rituals still but the word means take responsibility for your self and don't rely on any God to give you the answer. I am all that is and all that will be, and when I do my Gypsy Magick I am not under the delusion any God or being is doing the work, it is me and the elements of the Universe, who aid me in my result. I don't believe in evil, as evil is a entity or being that has not evolved.

[morningstar]

I don't use god names myself for personal reasons, but I do use words of power with meaning. A name of god is a power of god, it is said IHVH is gods complete power thus the whole of his power of creation and destruction. Its use in the lbrp is a little mundane, though like I said I do not use god names but names of power that correspond in more than an arbitrary manner.


If its not that presonal, can you tell why you don't use YHWH?
Also, what do you mean by the names of power?

[morningstar]

the red pill is rejecting all programed beliefs and embracing truth no matter how SEVERE it is.
Maybe we'll never know what it is.
It could be a truth which god didnt want us to know or a gift which was given to us but was taken away & that is why we have a psychic cesnor. We don't 'gain' psychic abilities, we merely try to use something which we already have but is blocked.

[Tanemis]

Its funny, theres a very similar belief in Celtic mythology, but instead of a fruit it is a hazel nut.

[zero]

words of power are words of meaning and can be created, This does not weigh on older more used names(and thus with more power in there usage), but does give a more personal and original form to ones ideology.


Also names of power are just that "power". you don't say them in midicrum, but as words of meaning(I find a lot more meaning in my own compositions(this may not be shared)).


Yhvh is unpronounced and one must find its true pronunciation as well as spelling(which is impossible in truth), but to pronounce it is a individual quest much like a perfect individual mantra. yhvh is a generic form of the idea of the absolute.

[flyinghippo]

I believe that the Tree represented change and progress in the world. Adam and Eve could have lived their live in a paradise where nothing would change. Eating from the tree stood for a rejection of such a world, and we have now inherited a world of constant change. The reason for this is that change is caused by evils. We are in this state now because of millenniums of war, in which the more developed countries moved their way into the less developed countries, because of greed, where entrepreneurs in the free market strove to make more money than others, resulting in the next company attempting to do so, and so forth, and so many more evils. This change has brought forth an equal amount of good and evil, as we now have much advanced medical technology, but also much new dangerous and harmful weapons. This will continue as long as mankind is at well-being.

From a Christian prospective, this also brought on much challenges to one's relationship with God. It's pretty difficult to live without these advancements, but too much indulgence can result in much sin, or a loss of faith. If one has a strong relationship God, then this he or she will never notice any change in the world, as there is always a balance of good and evil.

[crowley666]

change is caused by the attraction of opposites. Doesn't take a rocket scientist and definetly not a religious zealot to figure that out.