The Meaning of Lucifer.

[devakxes]

I believe in the meaning of Lucifer holds the key of what it means to be a Luciferian.

This is how EYE see it.

Lucifer was both an etruscan God and a Roman God.
In the Etruscan religion he was The God of Light. In his darker nature he was the God of Nature - a Horned God. When incorporated into the roman pantheon as a lesser god he became the God of Light, Knowledge, and Air. The symbolism of Air in Greek comes from AER. AER is not '' The Astral Plane'' but the air we breathe. The Aethyrs were supposed to be the Astral Plane which also translates into ''air'' but it was supposed to be '' the air beyond the celestial sphere'' or the stars.

Thus Lucifer is a force of Nature fallen from Above.

In Christianity Lucifer fell because he wanted to be God. In Merkavah Kabbalah the point is to stand before the glory of The Throne Of God ( The Merkavah) and thus in the glory of his presence dissolve into him. Lucifer sought to gain the Throne and Be God.

The original name for Lucifer in Isaiah was actually ''Day Star'' and not the '' Morning Star''.... there was actually a King in those days with the name of Day Star. So in some parts of the occult Lucifer is seen as an honored force, a force of temptation to Man in order to test and better himself.

In Islam Lucifer fell and became Iblis because when God created Man he wanted Lucifer to bow down before his creation. Lucifer then said '' Why should a son of fire bow down to a son of clay?'' and because he was defiant he was cast out of Heaven. Thus he told God that he hated man and would do everything to turn Man away from God.

However, The Yezidis (sp?) consider otherwise. They view that God was testing the loyalty of the Angels. So it is said in their version of the Koran
'' Why should a son of fire bow down to a son of clay? I am sorry my lord but I will not disobey the first commandment'' ( As in ... Thou shalt bow to no other gods before me).

In Occultism this was not seen as a test of God but the idea that proving that God is not Infallible. In one train of thought this only proved that one could become a God or that there were multiple ones. So when Lucifer fell into the Abyss he arose as a God. In Luciferian thought a God is not born simply through ritual but through sweat, hard work and discipline.

In another train of Thought it made Lucifer the Creator and (a) God because it created Chaos. Thus with Order and Chaos came Duality which resulted in the creation of All That Is.

It is that '' Luciferic'' thought that really makes a foundation in Luciferianism on the concept of a quest for knowledge. This '' Luciferic'' thought has been known to change societies, stimulate growth, and various other means.

An example of this follows into Thelema and the words of the Aeons.
'' Allah'' being that '' God is One'' united all of the tribes in the middle east into a coherent unit and brought a kind of harmony.

''Anatta'' or '' No Soul/Atman'' was the concept that started Buddhism and brought about the ending of the caste system.

It goes on and on.
Even in Christianity,
''Agape'' ... the concept that no longer do you need to do an elaborate ritual to go to Heaven but all you need to do is Love Christ and love one another and you'll end up in Heaven.

Luciferianism is thus a quest for God-hood. A quest for knowledge. A quest to break old paradigms, the discovery of new currents of energy and the liberation of others. It is also a quest for Balance. For Lucifer makes the profane something sacred and the sacred something profane all for our advancement. This is also a quest of falling into The Abyss... the dark side of ourselves... in order to arise completely self-aware.

[crowley666]

interesting read. I happen to see Lucifer more of a phase of satan.

[Goth_Queen]

Good post man.

[EtuMalku]

The word Lucifer is found in only one place in the Bible -- Isaiah 14:12 -- but only in the King James and related versions: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! . . ."

The New Revised Standard Version translates the same passage as "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, Son of Dawn!" In other translations we find: "O shining star of the dawn!" (Moffatt) or "O morning-star, son of the dawn!" (Hebrew Bible).

The King James Version is based on the Vulgate, the Latin translation of Jerome. Jerome translated the Hebrew helel (bright or brilliant one) as "lucifer," which was a reasonable Latin equivalent.

Lucifer is not an Adversary as the word Satan (Shaiten) describes
Lucifer is the 'Bringer of Light' in other words Lux Lucis (Lucifer) is gnosis, truth and Divine knowledge.

Lucifer makes His debut in the Testaments as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden pointing out to Eve that God is a liar and you will not die if you eat of the fruit of knowledge, which she did and did not die.


Lucifer is the god of progress and intellectual inquiry, not only the divine inspiration behind the spiritual enlightenment of the Gnostic and the heretic and the lover of God in all his/her forms. Through Lucifer's spirit humanity first climbed down from the trees and has represented the flow of progress ever since.

But Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light! A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star - and now we know we have our own inner light.

[Light]

I thought to share this, the concept of Lucifer By Rudolf Steiner :


"The significant symbol of wisdom given to us by research is Lucifer, the bringer of light. Everybody is searching for perception, wisdom is a child of Lucifer. The Chaldean astrologers, the Egyptian priests, the Indian Brahmans; they are all children of Lucifer. Already the first man became a child of Lucifer when the serpent taught him good and evil. What they got to know by perception was the sacred cosmic mystery. In front of it they kneeled in devotion. It was the light that showed their souls to their destiny. In devotion they received wisdom which became faith, religion. What Lucifer had brought to them, shined godlike in front of their psychic eyes. Owing to Lucifer they had God. It means to disunite heart and mind if God is considered as Lucifer's enemy. Our educated don't raise the perception of the mind to religious devotion, they paralyze the enthusiasm of the heart.

For those who are searching for the light of the spirit Lucifer shall be a messenger. He won't talk about a faith that is alien to perception. He won't flatter into the hearts to avoid the guardian of science: he shall respect him. He won't preach piety and divine bliss but will show ways for the knowledge to change into divine sensation, into the devotion of the cosmic spirit. Lucifer knows that the radiant sun may only rise in the heart of the individual; but he also knows that only the paths of perception lead up to the mountain where the sun appears in his divine radiation. Lucifer is no devil leading the searching Faust to hell; he shall be an awaker of those who believe in knowledge who want to change into the gold of divine wisdom."
-From Luzifer-Gnosis, Rudolph Steiner.

[MistressVampirella]

In Etruscan belief as in Stregheria (Italian craft), Lucifer is a God. In Stregheria, Lucifer is the Sun God, the "Son of Light" and is Diana's Brother. Lucifer has been considered a daemon and a Fallen Angel in other paths. The Freemasons honor and pay homage and respect to Lucifer as well.

[Light]

Thank you for sharing.
I will look into that as well, with enthusiasm...:)

[EtuMalku]

His brother, hmmm! I do know both Lucifer (if you see Lucifer as the Serpent) & Jesus are referred to as the MorningStar (Venus)?

Isaiah 14:12
King James version - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

New International Version - How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

[devakxes]

I mentioned the estruscan belief thing in my post that started this.
''The Gospel of Aradia'' explains the whole thing with Lucifer.

I was trying to point that Lucifer is a force of adversity... because he destroys in order to create anew.

Another interesting thing is the way the mormons look at Lucifer.
Lucifer is supposed to be a dictator like figure in their belief. He didn't want to give Free-Will to man but The Heavenly Father did. Thus Lucifer caused war and rebellion. This is supposed to be the reason why Mormons are supposed to be so peaceful and be okay with polygamy... because monogamy limits the will of someone. It is also supposed to have other lessons.

Not saying I agree with them. But just another view of Lucifer.

[Light]

Where did the mormons get their view of Lucifer ? It seems quite different.
Would be interesting to know , how it came about..

[EtuMalku]

Does your friend have anything to back this up?
I believe that is a LDS/Mormon theory, which in turn has nothing to back it up.

i do not see Lucifer as the serpent, in fact i have a friend who says that Lucifer was really the true son of god, and Jesus was second best. he said Jesus was a metaphor for sacrifice and Lucifer will come back to claim his place once again.

[Light]

This is really interesting , as I have grown up with the speculation, that Lucifer was working through Jesus or that Jesus was in fact Lucifer. I don't know at this point where the theory comes from, as in a book etc. but I'll look into it more and keep reading .
What I posted on Lucifer earlier, was one that I found in one of M.W. Fords writings and it now explains to me, why after moving to Australia and growing up in Finland attending a Rudolf Steiner school, I had such a different concept of Lucifer, than people here.

Also, Rudolf Steiner was German, that did study a lot, old faiths and mythologies, etc....Rudolf Steiner has also written a lot. The writings however, seems quite dry and so much to grasp, so I'll have to take it in small increments.

Good to see though, so many versions posted....

[Light]

Yes, it is a very intersting and a complex subject, the more you delv into it.

Still there seems to be most of the time a common thread that runs through, with the concept of Lucifer, when looking at the different versions .

I suppose at the end of the day, one has to make sense of what is what and what of any of it, means anything to oneself...

[Light]

Yes, I beleive this to be true. One has to make up their own mind about everything they've read in the end...The orginal beleifs will always be the most authentic and ring true, it seems to me, so far ...:)

[Kain]

It's normal to see commons between Jesus and Lucifer... Because Lucifer is Jesus' brother. He was supposed to be the first Messiah. And, I guess He saw Satan falling after He fell, because He was not existed when Satan fell.

(Maybe with the same way used by Satan to teleported Him from the desert to the mountain)

[EtuMalku]

Where do you get this information from?


It's normal to see commons between Jesus and Lucifer... Because Lucifer is Jesus' brother. He was supposed to be the first Messiah. And, I guess He saw Satan falling after He fell, because He was not existed when Satan fell.

(Maybe with the same way used by Satan to teleported Him from the desert to the mountain)

[Kain]

Where do you get this information from?
The Bible and then by my head after some thinking...

[EtuMalku]

I don't see much in common between the Judeo-Christian Lucifer and Jesus.
I've only read this brother concept in Mormon scripture.
I've never read of Lucifer being any kind of Messiah
I can't see Lucifer watching Satan doing anything because in Judeo-Christian terms they are One and the Same (Lucifer/Angel - Satan/Fallen)
Lucifer came fri

It's normal to see commons between Jesus and Lucifer... Because Lucifer is Jesus' brother. He was supposed to be the first Messiah. And, I guess He saw Satan falling after He fell, because He was not existed when Satan fell.

(Maybe with the same way used by Satan to teleported Him from the desert to the mountain)

[albie]

>>The King James Version is based on the Vulgate, the Latin translation of Jerome. Jerome translated the Hebrew helel (bright or brilliant one) as "lucifer," which was a reasonable Latin equivalent.

Helel was a king of Babylon. Not Satan. There's no such character as the Luciferic devil. He's made up. The reference in Isaiah is to the Babylonian king not a devil. The name Lucifer does not show up at all in the old or new testament.

So anyone who claims to follow Lucifer is massively under educated on the subject.

I recall an Illuminati whistleblower called Svali pointed out that the Illuminati were Luciferians and not Satanists. Big error, lady.

Unless these people worship Venus. :)

Of course this doesn't mean Lucifer isn't real. You could probably conjure him, or a version of him. A tulpa. But still horny.

[albie]

Surely Satan would be Jesus' son and brother. As Jesus was supposed to be his own father.

[Kain]

Jesus is the son of God, or else why would He sacrifice Himself for humans sins? Who told Him to be crucified? Himself? Of course not. He is the son of God, not God Himself.

About Lucifer... You are wrong. Babylon is a symbol of an evil kingdom. You must understand that many things are metaphors in the Bible. It's obvious the God speaks about an angel when He says that He crushed Him to the earth. Besides, He calls Him "Cherub". How can He call a king "Cherub"?

It's just because Lucifer was the Father-Cherub who fell from Heaven and became the Devil.

[EtuMalku]

So for you, the Judeo-Christian bible is the Truth?
>>The King James Version is based on the Vulgate, the Latin translation of Jerome. Jerome translated the Hebrew helel (bright or brilliant one) as "lucifer," which was a reasonable Latin equivalent.

Helel was a king of Babylon. Not Satan. There's no such character as the Luciferic devil. He's made up. The reference in Isaiah is to the Babylonian king not a devil. The name Lucifer does not show up at all in the old or new testament.

So anyone who claims to follow Lucifer is massively under educated on the subject.

I recall an Illuminati whistleblower called Svali pointed out that the Illuminati were Luciferians and not Satanists. Big error, lady.

Unless these people worship Venus. :)

Of course this doesn't mean Lucifer isn't real. You could probably conjure him, or a version of him. A tulpa. But still horny.

[Kain]

So for you, the Judeo-Christian bible is the Truth?
Yes. I've already said that. I am a Christian (both Orthodox and Catholic).

[EtuMalku]

Most if not all of us that have followed a Luciferian path do not agree with anything that this bible says.

I for one find that book to be nothing more than an abridged version of the all the World's myths and folklore compiled (eventually) into a concise, distorted and biased Hero-Myth epic.

A book of Allegories and Metaphors. There is no historical facts that Jesus or Moses ever existed.

[albie]

Jesus is the son of God, or else why would He sacrifice Himself for humans sins? Who told Him to be crucified? Himself? Of course not. He is the son of God, not God Himself.

About Lucifer... You are wrong. Babylon is a symbol of an evil kingdom. You must understand that many things are metaphors in the Bible. It's obvious the God speaks about an angel when He says that He crushed Him to the earth. Besides, He calls Him "Cherub". How can He call a king "Cherub"?

It's just because Lucifer was the Father-Cherub who fell from Heaven and became the Devil.

In what translation of Isaiah 14:3-20 does it refer to the Babylonian King Helel Ben-Shachar as a cherub?

Why would they use metaphor for Lucifer when they talk about the devil plainly elsewhere in the bible? It makes no sense. The name 'Lucifer' is an error created by Jews between writing of the Old and New Testament. It is NOT the devil's name, anymore than Baalzebub or Moloch.

unless satan had actually reincarnated as that particular king.

As for God being Jesus' father. does God have a genetic code to pass on? Why would he? We are all God, we are all one mind split into many. God is just a big clump of that mind that we come from. Satan is a clump that is bigger than a man, and he wants to keep us seperated from the God clump.

But that is how jesus can be God and his own son. He pulls off a bit of himself, a living version, smaller but still him. The word 'son' is misleading but it suffices for the average moron living 2000 years ago.

[albie]

I might add that maybe the Illuminati deliberatley worship a FAKE devil in the same way that Alan Moore worships his Glycon fake snake god. Consciously admitting that the process of worship demands an icon set above mankind to absorb the emotions of worship(love and fear).

[Kain]

Babylone symbolizes an evil kingdom that's why Issaiah calls Lucifer a king of Babylone. But how can a king say that he is going "to be like the Most High"?

"Lucifer is another name for Satan, who as head of the evil world-system is the real, though invisible, power behind the successive rulers of Tyre, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and all of those evil rulers that we have seen come and go in the history of the world. This passage goes beyond human history and marks the beginning of sin in the universe and the very fall of Satan in the pristine, sinless spheres before the creation of man."

And... In Ezekiel, the God says:

"Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee."


And then we have the book of Enoch's Satanael and Jesus saying "I saw Satan falling like lightning from Heaven!".

[EtuMalku]

God is just a big clump of that mind that we come from. Satan is a clump that is bigger than a man, and he wants to keep us seperated from the God clump.

But that is how jesus can be God and his own son. He pulls off a bit of himself, a living version, smaller but still him. The word 'son' is misleading but it suffices for the average moron living 2000 years ago.
I wouldn't say that Satan wishes to keep us separated from the God clump, but rather gives us another choice that the God clump never intended for us to have, and that is to be a god.

Does this mean Jesus was on the Left Hand Path of Self-Deification?

[EtuMalku]

Well put fatalist!
May I ask if the Hermetic Kybalion and its understanding of dualism figures in with your beliefs? (just a quick derailment, sorry)

I agree with you EtuMalku that the Bible is based on the world's myths and folklore. I don't think that Jesus necessarily existed, and if he did, he was simply a mystic. A mystic teaching humility and unconditional love, RHP principles. I think that such mystics will always come from time to time if the Macrocosm necessitates it.

Lucifer to me symbolizes ambition, strife, mortality, and ability to choose/think/pass judgement. To me, these characteristics are LHP in principle and are in rebellion to Jesus' teachings and to the "God of suppliance". For these reasons, I don't think Jesus is to be equated with Lucifer as a messaih, atleast not in the same sense.

I am a dualist and my belief that there are 2 primary polar forces in nature means that there are essentially only 2 camps of orientation. For this reason, to me Lucifer and Satan are either the one and the same, or are already in the same camp. So it doesn't really matter.

[EtuMalku]

I have a different view on Lucifer, but first I would like to address the Abrahamic Lucifer being spoken of here.

As there are always two sides to every story, I would prefer to see the Fall of Lucifer from His side. An angel that would see there was considerably more to existence than what the Abrahamic God allowed to be known. An angel who imparted this Knowledge to Mankind and thus enraged the jealous and spiteful Abrahamic God, who in retaliation banished Lucifer from Heaven.

That said, I do not to define 'my' Lucifer in the biased definition set forth by the Abrahamic religions, in particularly Christianity. By understanding Lucifer in 'their' light, you have succumbed to 'their' interpretation and twist on Him.

[Light]

To me when reading the Kybalion was as well, a perfect way to explain Luciferiansm and the core of what Lucifer the concept is ...all who seek wisdom ,truth, advancement, etc.. are Luciferians. We as humans are born being so...If one thinks about a young child , baby, they have an innate need to explore and learn to survive and eventually become independent of it's parents, it also is a form of how I see Luciferianism.
This journey does not have to halt, when we become adult, but I beleive should continue throughout our lives. If dissrupted though religion or social, environmental pressures, it simply hinders evolution on both the individual level and on the bigger scale where maturity on a whole culture of people will be arrested.
Also, yes the mental duality is a must or nautral, the way I see it.
The human mind and self, for a natural process of maturity to occur, as there would not be otherwise a way to reflect and learn indipendently in our own selves..
But is this then becoming a God? yes, on some level, as then we are our own creators..

To me, it is becoming the best we can be, in our selves, somehow the concept of God is not the all mighty person, but something that just is all around us, the life force and due to the concept of Lucifer we are as humans, different from other animals, through evolution or Lucifer.
So becoming the best we can become , yes it will bring us closer to being connected to everything around us, so in one way, we will then become a part of the whole or if you like God.

However, I see this as just normal natural process, what we are here for...not something that is laced with sin, etc...

Did Lucifer fall to the Abyss and rise up? yes, I beleive so , like we will have to or did, as well , to rise and be more...I see this as the Duality , Polarity, Light Dark, etc...as well..

[Kain]

So you believe in Lucifer as an actual entity?

If yes... Do you believe in Satan and God too?

And if yes... Why won't you just believe in God but choose Lucifer instead? I mean... Okay we see Satan doing many things in the Bible and Diabolic books that can prove that He is strong and can stand against God.

But, what about Lucifer? What has He done if He is not Satan? I mean He fell from Heaven and then what? We have no other mention of His name in the old scriptures.

[devakxes]

The word ''cherub'' being in there doesn't mean ****. Considering that it could mean a bunch of different things when you look at the original translation and the context it was spoken in. Hell, it could be a metaphor. This is in regards to the whole Helel thing.

I have never really read the Kybalion so I can't necessarily say what I think of Lucifer in terms of the Kybalion. As I read through this website which explains it... I come to the conclusion that I know these things but I have them in my mind under different teminologies. This is due to my studies in thelema... which takes a lot from the hermetic traditions.

In terms of dualism... I see Lucifer and God, as Chaos/Rebellion and Order, respectively.
Going to either polarity has its' benefits... I don't view them necessarily as the source of All That Is... just two principles/forces that are in opposition. It reminds me a lot of zoroastrianism and zurvanism... the whole point of there being a good twin and a bad twin who desire to rule the kingdom.
The kingdom being creation. If you look at The Diabolicon they show Lucifer as a rebel for free-will and God as the source of Order... Order naturally desires to conform everything to One Will which cannot allow free-thinking and Will to be. Chaos naturally is the tendency to think and to rebel against Order... to differentiate. It all comes down to the concept of ''what came first''... Is chaos temporary - being brought back into the dripping jaws of Father Order? Is order temporary - being brought back into the vagina dentata of Mother Chaos?

Instead of looking at Lucifer from the point of being a rebel who just desires to live his life - they view this force as something selfish and proud.

Another thought with Pride. In my particular form of Luciferianism... just as the ego is destroyed to allow the light of The All in... the ego is exalted in Luciferianism and unites with one's spark of divinity to produce a flame which cannot die within the darkness of existence... a flame that cannot be eaten by Order.

[Kain]

But... If you don't believe that this "Babylonian king" is Lucifer... the Father Cherub, then how can you say that you believe in Lucifer who was a rebel against God?

Anyway, according to all the scriptures / traditions that speak about Lucifer, Lucifer was a rebel not because He wanted to be free and loved free will, but because He wanted to be superior than God.

[EtuMalku]

Lucifer is the god of progress and intellectual inquiry, not only the divine inspiration behind the spiritual enlightenment of the Gnostic and the heretic and the lover of God in all his/her forms.
Through Lucifer's spirit humanity first climbed down from the trees and has represented the flow of progress ever since.

But Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light!
A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star - and now we know we have our own inner light.

Hi EtuMalku. My emphasis on Lucifer’s “sin” didn’t mean that I am succumbing to a Christian based ideology. I am sorry if I wasn’t clear on this. By focusing on Lucifer’s “sin” I was just trying to elaborate on exactly what the essence of Lucifer is. I think most Luciferians will agree that Lucifer symbolizes Pride first and foremost. However, this is my opinion and I would like to know what others believe is the essence of Lucifer.

If we recall, the original sin of mankind for which Lucifer/Satan was responsible for was the knowledge between good and evil. In Genesis 3:4-5 it states that:

But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.

In my opinion, the ability to know good and evil is a process of dualistic thinking, to be able to choose, to have free-will, for which Lucifer is responsible. And as I have noted in a previous post, this dualistic-alchemical process enables one to be a God. However, if Lucifer is responsible for this dualistic thinking, why does it state that you will be like God? Does this mean that God and Lucifer are alike? My own answer to this and in regards to the Hermetic principles is that since the All exists, it takes Pride as well. And through such Pride, the All manifests its creation. We are told in Genesis that as God created his creation, he evaluated it in terms of good or bad. Therefore, existence is based on a dual relationship to possess its identity in the Mind of the All. From this perspective, I agree with you EtuMalku that God is a jealous God since he possesses Pride from which all his creation takes root. We are therefore, as Luciferians, feel justified by adaptation of God’s Knowledge to seek out our own creation and God-hood. I also think that your interpretation mirrors the story of Prometheus. Can you elaborate on what you think was that “Knowledge” that Lucifer stole from God?

[Light]

Lucifer is the god of progress and intellectual inquiry, not only the divine inspiration behind the spiritual enlightenment of the Gnostic and the heretic and the lover of God in all his/her forms.
Through Lucifer's spirit humanity first climbed down from the trees and has represented the flow of progress ever since.

But Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light!
A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star - and now we know we have our own inner light.


This is to me, the most amazing way of putting it...almost 'holy'...
This is exatly, the way I see it too...Love the way you describe it, it is the life force in all of us...

[devakxes]

I've made my way to the 5th chapter of the Kybalion and after having the knowledge that you spoke of - I find that absolutely profound what you spoke about in terms of pride.

In Thelema... these two dualistic principles are Nuit and Hadit. Nuit is represented as the infinite circle reaching outward (The All/God) while Hadit is the point within the circle... omnipresent within the circle (infinite points or manifestations because the circle is infinite) and infinitely going within. The goal of thelema is to unite the Point and The Circle resulting in a rapture and uniting the One with the All, thus increasing the process of becoming infinite for all and one's self.

In this case Hadit is Lucifer... but the big point in Thelema is union is attainable because Hadit is the lover of Nuit... being that they are both the same in essence... because if Nuit is reaching out everywhere infinitely then Hadit is the natural result... ''Every man and Every Woman is a star'' is the concept of that. When I was reading an introduction to this it talked about how many philosophies through-out the world had taken from Hermetism and I think this is supposed to be Thelema's way of explaining the whole creation thing. In this sense, creation never happened....

My only concern was originally the concept of why there is disorder if there is a generative principle between the two forces.... resulting in progress. Then I remembered the law of rhythm. Thank you, this has expanded my mind in a new light and direction.

[EtuMalku]

It does sound a little new Age-ish, but that's not where I'm coming from really.
The Principle of Light is very intriguing as well as the metaphors and mythology concerning Light (as vibration).


Lucifer and Prometheus is the title of a classic work of psychological literary criticism written by R.J. Zwi Werblowsky and published in 1952. In it, Werblowsky argues that the Satan[1] of John Milton's Paradise Lost became a disproportionately appealing character because of attributes he shares with the Greek Titan Prometheus.
- READ MORE - Lucifer and Prometheus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_and_Prometheus)

And I would agree with your concept of Man's mastery of Nature, indeed to Master the Physical Plane (objective universe) is a goal of any Left Hand Path Initiate.


EtuMalku, you have an interesting perspective on Lucifer. However, I have to admit I find the DNA part of it more New-Age’ish rather than anything symbolically relevant to Lucifer. Please excuse me if I am wrong.

Also, when you mention him as symbolic to the spirit of humanity, are you drawing any parallels here between Lucifer and Prometheus? In my understanding of Prometheus, I like to think that the flow of progress for which Lucifer/Prometheus is responsible for in humanity is humanity’s mastery over nature. Not the other way around.

[devakxes]

In regards to Pride, what I mentioned before isn't described in the Kybalion or in any of Hermetic teachings that I know of. However, I don't find how my concept of Pride contradicts any of the Hermetic principles either. I borrowed this concept from "rational egoistic" philosophies. To me, Pride neccessitates the law of identity, the law of identity neccessitates the law of polarity, the law of polarity neccessitates dualistic thinking, this neccessitates self-awareness. Based on Lucifer's symbolic meaning and his "sin" in relation to the All, I believe that Lucifer is the embodiment of Pride/Self-Awareness.

I agree fully on this.
Part of Thelema is breaking the concept of ''I exist''... because of our identification with the mind and various other things. In Thelema they seek to make the Ego identify with The Higher Self... the part of you that is more you than all you call you... the source of consciousness... instead of identifying with the body and mind and letting these things control you (though the higher self is part mind... just on a higher level. The law of correspondence.)

The problem is that the law of identity is perfect. Most things have an opposite but there is no being that is completely one's opposite and so it is hard to understand that one's Self is also one with The All. This requires crossing The Abyss in order to go and destroy all of the identifications one has, in order so that the ego may identify with the Higher Self. It is in this sublime state of ''neither neither'' that the Ego may perish completely and allow one to perceive with our spiritual senses - the all. (''I am you, and you are me, and we are one'') In my opinion, the consciousness of Man is ultimately the polar opposite of The All. Since we have a tendency to do this:


I understand that due to our nature we tend to look at everything from a positive viewpoint. In other words, we tend to bring the dark questions to light, our light. It’s a form of rationalizing about everything to the benefit of our deepest interests/ego. We are all guilty of it, but then again, that’s the only way anything can make sense to us in the first place.

But this desire to identify with thoughts and material things... is unending because we have not found the infinite spark of light within us... due to ''The All being within All. ''

I don't think it is the ultimate goal of humanity to dissolve one's Higher Self into The All, because that to me is spiritual suicide. It is in that sublime ''neither neither'' state that occurs after crossing the Abyss where one can choose to obliterate the ego and connect with The All and lose one's self... or go and identify with one's higher self and seek self-deification. The spark of divinity becomes a flame by ''burning'' up the Ego and becoming completely whole in itself - intoxicated on self love that pours outward into everything.
This latter view is where my luciferianism takes hold... becoming a God. Thelema seeks instead to unite the Self with God.

Some may interpret that ''self love'' as pride.

The All is said to breathe into Creation ... an ''outpouring'' of itself into its' creation... and then drawing it all back in. To say that The All would essential desire to ''cannabilize'' us is the desire of a weak man seeking otherworldly escapism. The All does not require anything in order to be satisfied because it is Infinite.

[Light]

@fatalist . I do beleive we have a different preception what 'holy' means...
For me refering to how something is described in this instance, I did mean something true from Within...Not something 'holy' as in the christian way.

[devakxes]

Thank you for the interesting reply devakxes. I agree with your general view, however, there are some details I didn’t understand completely.

I am a bit confused about the relationship of the “Higher Self” and the “Self uniting with the All”. If the higher self means self-deification then I agree with you. However, you mention that before one can identify with the Higher Self one has to destroy all of the identifications one has. Does that entail practicing any of the RHP principles? Also, you mention that in Thelema, one seeks to identify with one’s Higher Self. Yet, you also say that Thelema seeks to unite the Self with God. Does this mean that Thelema teaches both opposing ways or does this mean that one of them is a 2-step process? Could you clarify this please?

I agree with you that the law of identity represents perfection, where A = A and can be no other. The only perfection that I can consider as perfection is the All because everything is part of the All. However, to actually know the All in its perfection is to step outside the All. This is because the law of identity entails the law of polarity, where to identify something one must identify it as opposed to something. So, in other words, to identify the All one must identify it in relation to some opposing background that gives the All its identity. However, because one can’t do so, the All is perfection that is unknowable. To achieve a greater relationship with the All, one must follow the RHP way where one doesn’t differentiate but seeks harmony in all things. Yet, I understand that the opposing way is to purposively put oneself in conflict with the All in order to be self-aware. So I agree with you that the consciousness of Man is ultimately the polar opposite of the All and not “spiritual suicide”. Therefore, insofar that there may be a goal for humanity, I think the goal is promote greater consciousness-differentiation through science, warfare, and other endeavors that sharpen mankind’s intellect and promote dualistic thinking. This is what I interpret Luciferianism to embody and I think that such a goal is more of an evolutionary process.

But I think you may have a different interpretation of Luciferianism where it involves burning up the ego. Could you further enlighten me on your understanding of the concept of the Abyss where one has a choice between seeking self-deification and dissolving into the All? Symbolically, what does the Abyss represent to you? As mentioned above, one of my concerns is that this process entails some RHP practices? And, according to you, how does one go about making one’s divine spark a flame?

The Higher Self to me is viewed from a slightly theosophical perspective. To me it is one's overall consciousness and the ''spark of divinity'' that is what is a part of us that is also a part of/the connection to - the All. Regular ego consciousness focuses on details. The Higher Self focuses on the greater picture. Freud called this ''The Super Ego''. Lavey calls this ''The True Daemonic Self''... it is kinda like one's Holy Guardian Angel... except we tend to view it as separate because the Ego only sees in details and the Higher Self is too idealistic for the ego to identify with it.

They don't necessarily seek to identify with their higher self. They rather seek to atone the Will of the Higher Self with the universal order around them. They call it ''knowledge and conversation of one's Holy Guardian Angel''. When you attain awareness of your Higher Self - you will eventually see it as part of your overall self once you destroy the ego. However it goes deeper into the concept that once you do this - you attain atonement with the Will of the All, then you end up attaining unity with the All, then you become one with it at the very end of the whole process.

The destruction of the ego gives us power over our higher selves and then it also destroys the law of identity - thus allowing us to attain atonement, unity(think of unity in terms of sex.. part of being the magus is being able to use the power of The All to create a new aeon and kind of magick), and oneness.

It is in a sense a two step process. Awareness of your higher self - then atonement/unity/oneness.

In my Luciferianism, by ''isolating one's spark of divinity''... and reaching a clearly objective point of view - one has essentially separated from the universe and the use of one's mind can then change the world around you through creating your own subjective universe. On the contrary - instead of annihilating and bringing one's emotions, desires, lusts, etc. into a state of serenity... you instead master them and refine them. Before one can isolate one's spark of divinity you have to have a strong mind else you lose your mind and fall into madness. Once it has been isolated, your ego can identify with it and reach an intoxicating self love that is described more in depth by Austin Osman Spare. After that it is the refinement of one's Will(becoming a master of the objective universe) and then a sort of ''unity/oneness'' with The All but not as the RHP defines it. The best way I can describe this is that of Lilith riding Samael. Lilith is often seen on top of the Male ... the male in this instance being The All and Lilith being the initiate. By rejecting All, one has also become beloved by The All. Except in its' greatness it seeks to devour the Self (Self being lower self, middle self, higher self)... the initiate has to retain a sense of self and yet also retain a a sort of unity with The All. This symbolism can further be explained by the concept of Set and Apep. Apep in this instance is the universe and illusion... Set must break free from the universe (sekenu - a violent birth) but also must dive within the universe in order to refine one's self and become a power in his own right.

I hope this made enough sense.

The hardest thing to describe is The Abyss because it is so hard to define. I believe it is a sort of ''map of the subconscious''.... as well as a state of mind. Austin Osman Spare considered this a ''neither-neither'' state of mind. A computer when it has downloaded a program has to shut down in order to completely download the program. I think the Mind has to shut down in order to initially see the Higher Self. After this The Abyss can be used for a lot of other purposes. It is comparable to Bohu, Tohu, and Chasek (Void, Chaos, and Uncertainty) and is very similar to ''death'' in a lot of writings. In the RHP it is used to annihilate the Ego so that one can completely see the Higher Self and then this ego annihilation allows one to atone it with the universal order. In my Luciferianism, it is used in order to isolate one's spark of divinity as well as isolate the Will into a supreme focus. One's focused Will and strong sense of Self is then used in order to not die when you get into conflict with Apep,


''The Book of Witch Moon'' by Michael W. Ford describes it the best. Crowley also has described it. As well as other occultists. The Order of Nine Angles views it as the area between the casual and acasual universes.

If you read The Diabolicon (type it in google) you can find out what the Temple of Set thinks of Lucifer.

[seekerofprophecies]

The word Lucifer is found in only one place in the Bible -- Isaiah 14:12 -- but only in the King James and related versions: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! . . ."

The New Revised Standard Version translates the same passage as "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, Son of Dawn!" In other translations we find: "O shining star of the dawn!" (Moffatt) or "O morning-star, son of the dawn!" (Hebrew Bible).

The King James Version is based on the Vulgate, the Latin translation of Jerome. Jerome translated the Hebrew helel (bright or brilliant one) as "lucifer," which was a reasonable Latin equivalent.

Lucifer is not an Adversary as the word Satan (Shaiten) describes
Lucifer is the 'Bringer of Light' in other words Lux Lucis (Lucifer) is gnosis, truth and Divine knowledge.

Lucifer makes His debut in the Testaments as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden pointing out to Eve that God is a liar and you will not die if you eat of the fruit of knowledge, which she did and did not die.


Lucifer is the god of progress and intellectual inquiry, not only the divine inspiration behind the spiritual enlightenment of the Gnostic and the heretic and the lover of God in all his/her forms. Through Lucifer's spirit humanity first climbed down from the trees and has represented the flow of progress ever since.

But Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light! A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star - and now we know we have our own inner light.

If this is true that is really interesting, becaus I have seen a shooting star, and I quote I have read that when you see a shooting star it is actually your star. As for our own innerlight well lets just say i've been to that place of complete extacy "love"

[seekerofprophecies]

Hi devakxes, I would have to look into the studies in Thelema myself. I agree with most of what you said but you mentioned that you don’t see the two polar forces as the source of the All. The reason I view them as both part of the All is in recognition of the Hermetic Principle of Polarity, which states that everything expresses a dual nature. This sense of dualism and the Principle of Cause and Effect means to me that by the existence of Order, it necessitates Chaos. One can’t exist without the other and therefore they both came first. How can one polar force come before the other if the nature of it depends on the other? In my understanding, I don’t think that one can exist without the other. Do you think otherwise?

Thats interesting because i watched the matrix trilogy yesterday and there are many parralells with the occult world in it. Neo expressed this as I don't like the idea that i'm not in control of my own life. As for the polarity thing then wouldn't that be akin to being like a battery of energy or a storage point of energy?

[EtuMalku]

EtuMalku, will you be willing to share information on how the Temple of Set views Lucifer?I can only speak of my own understanding of Lucifer. The TOS would not hold a single view but rather a community of views.

[krimson]

The word Lucifer is found in only one place in the Bible -- Isaiah 14:12 -- but only in the King James and related versions: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! . . ."

The New Revised Standard Version translates the same passage as "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, Son of Dawn!" In other translations we find: "O shining star of the dawn!" (Moffatt) or "O morning-star, son of the dawn!" (Hebrew Bible).

The King James Version is based on the Vulgate, the Latin translation of Jerome. Jerome translated the Hebrew helel (bright or brilliant one) as "lucifer," which was a reasonable Latin equivalent.

Lucifer is not an Adversary as the word Satan (Shaiten) describes
Lucifer is the 'Bringer of Light' in other words Lux Lucis (Lucifer) is gnosis, truth and Divine knowledge.

Lucifer makes His debut in the Testaments as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden pointing out to Eve that God is a liar and you will not die if you eat of the fruit of knowledge, which she did and did not die.


Lucifer is the god of progress and intellectual inquiry, not only the divine inspiration behind the spiritual enlightenment of the Gnostic and the heretic and the lover of God in all his/her forms. Through Lucifer's spirit humanity first climbed down from the trees and has represented the flow of progress ever since.

But Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light! A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star - and now we know we have our own inner light.


7 pages later! Yes. Hello. You inspire me with your vast knowledge and wisdom. This has been accomplished by few. Awesome. Thank you. :)

[Light]

This might be a useful link to check out: Main Page - Lucipedia (http://www.lucipedia.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)

[seekerofprophecies]

Theres seems to be a disregard the physical manifestations of life in this thread. A disrespect for sex, as a natural form of continuing the physical manifestation.

[Cartoon Character]

This may be a bit off topic, but I'll ask anyway. In one of fatalist's recent posts, the primacy of consciousness was mentioned with regard to Luciferian ideology and practice, and how it may be more useful here than the primacy of existence due to the epistemological nature of boards such as this. Out of curiosity, how would one define Luciferian epistemology, and are there any particular characteristics relating to theories of knowledge and how we attain it unique to the Luciferian?

[EtuMalku]

This might be a useful link to check out: Main Page - Lucipedia (http://www.lucipedia.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
Thank you Light . . . this Wiki page is a part of the Luciferian Research Society that I belong to. I hope everyone can finally understand what Luciferianism IS and is NOT.

[Light]

Thank you Light . . . this Wiki page is a part of the Luciferian Research Society that I belong to. I hope everyone can finally understand what Luciferianism IS and is NOT.

You're welcome.
It is a work in progress and a wonderful start.
It will help with the confusion that many seem to have about Luciferianism.

[Sweet]

Most if not all of us that have followed a Luciferian path do not agree with anything that this bible says.

I for one find that book to be nothing more than an abridged version of the all the World's myths and folklore compiled (eventually) into a concise, distorted and biased Hero-Myth epic.

A book of Allegories and Metaphors. There is no historical facts that Jesus or Moses ever existed.

The word bible mean's a book of compiled storie's and there is a giant crack in the red sea that shows it was split, and thanks for sharing your posts devaxes and thought's on the abyss and "higher self" and etc has really opened my mind especially when you were talking about the mind must shut down like "death" in order to look pass ur ego. But isnt this essentially dangerous to fall into an abyss to be torn and ripped apart into something new or better, not everyone and everything can handle such transformation.