Did Satan create us? [Archive] - Occult Forums - Occult Forum - The Occult - Occult Symbols

devakxes

06-25-2010, 09:26 AM

Etumalku is correct.

It doesn't state anywhere that Satan is everything that is sin, or that he even loves sin, he's simply a force of temptation that causes man to turn away from God (At least in the bible).

It is interesting that Satan isn't actually referred anywhere in the old testament and yet he is referred frequently and suddenly in the new testament. Suddenly the old demon names that were originally used in the old testament are replaced with satan.

In ''The Joy of Satan'' website, Satan is considered the creator of humanity. However, even if you followed mythology that is bullshit. Enki didn't create Man, Marduk did.

On an occult and metaphysical note. I'm sure the souls of some do come from Lucifer/Satan but I don't give credit to Satan for the entire creation of humanity.

Though if you think about the forbidden fruit and how man was said to be ''clothed'' after he left the garden, one could think of ''clothes of flesh'' that were given to Adam and Eve... and thus in one train of thought Satan could be the creator of our human bodies.

tram

06-25-2010, 10:01 AM

EtuMalku

06-25-2010, 02:12 PM

Well, it is true that nothing in the Bible stated that Satan is sin, but he led Adam and Eve into sin and that became theyr true nature. So in a way he did create us, atleast our inner animalistic selfs.

Also, Satan was mentioned in the old testament. In the book of job:I kind of see this scenario a bit differently . . .

The word Lucifer is found in only one place in the Bible -- Isaiah 14:12 -- but only in the King James and related versions: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! . . ."

The New Revised Standard Version translates the same passage as "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, Son of Dawn!" In other translations we find: "O shining star of the dawn!" (Moffatt) or "O morning-star, son of the dawn!" (Hebrew Bible).

The King James Version is based on the Vulgate, the Latin translation of Jerome. Jerome translated the Hebrew helel (bright or brilliant one) as "lucifer," which was a reasonable Latin equivalent.

Lucifer is not an Adversary as the word Satan (Shaiten) describes
Lucifer is the 'Bringer of Light' in other words Lux Lucis (Lucifer) is gnosis, truth and Divine knowledge.

Lucifer makes His debut in the Testaments as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden pointing out to Eve that God is a liar and you will not die if you eat of the fruit of knowledge, which she did and did not die.

Lucifer is the god of progress and intellectual inquiry, through Lucifer's spirit humanity first climbed down from the trees and has represented the flow of progress ever since.

But Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light! A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star - and now we know we have our own inner light.

EM

tram

06-25-2010, 03:16 PM

Well Lucifer and Satan i whould say are two different subjects, even tho some people believe they are one. So that is kinda offtopic.

Lucifer makes His debut in the Testaments as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden pointing out to Eve that God is a liar and you will not die if you eat of the fruit of knowledge, which she did and did not die.

How did you come to that conclusion?

EtuMalku

06-25-2010, 03:55 PM

Genesis 2:

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

According to Genesis 5:5, Adam died at the age of 930 (Eve's death was not recorded, being a woman she was not important enough it seems)

EM

tram

06-25-2010, 04:07 PM

What i meant was how do you know thats Lucifer? If Lucifer is not the same as Satan that is.

EtuMalku

06-25-2010, 04:33 PM

In my opinion, the entire Old & New Testaments are metaphorical and not historical.
The idea behind the apple and Adam & Eve is that Lucifer (the angel) made it understood by Adam & Eve that there is more to life than subservience to another (God) and that Man has the ability to Become as a god, Himself. This is THE premise of the entire Left Hand Path as opposed to the Right Hand Path of God.

Lucifer, Satan, Belial & Leviathan are the Four Crowned Princes of Hell and the four aspects of the Prince of Darkness.

EM

tram

06-25-2010, 04:50 PM

I agree. But still, how do you know it was Lucifer that thought Adam and Eve and not something else.

EtuMalku

06-25-2010, 04:57 PM

I guess because Lucifer is the essence of gnosis and intellect.
Satan the essence of Will and Rebellion, Belial of physical desires and Leviathan of the Mystery of Creation. The only aspect of the Prince of Darkness that fits the bill in the Garden of Eden would be that of Lucifer.

tram

06-25-2010, 05:11 PM

Well, Satan helped with the rebellion against god.

Also, where did you learn that? Must be some book ive missed?

Great American Desert

06-25-2010, 06:53 PM

Etu Malku is speaking from the relativistic stance of Gnosis. It is wholly Gnostic to equate the Serpent of Eden with Lucifer as the act that He committed was the essence of Luciferian acts.

There's not a Biblical source for the equating of the Serpent with Lucifer; the source is in Gnosis itself...a Gnosis with which more and more people are graced these days. But if you need a book to relay the information, they can be found if you look hard enough.

EtuMalku

06-25-2010, 06:56 PM

Well, Satan helped with the rebellion against god.

Also, where did you learn that? Must be some book ive missed?Ahhh, I see where you're going with this!

Yes, the many book(s) you apparently missed. This is the consensus of most Theosophical, Theological, Philosophical and Psychological thought, as well as how almost all occult societies perceive the metaphorical meeting of the Serpent in the Garden of Eden.

If I might add, that it is Theologically, Lucifer the Angel that rebels against the Abrahamic God. His action is twofold. One, he will not bow down to the inferior Adam as God demands of Him, for Lucifer will bow to only that greater then He as God is. Secondly, this scenario introduces a new perspective on existence to Lucifer, one that God did not wish to be realized.

EM

tram

06-25-2010, 10:53 PM

Ahhh, I see where you're going with this!

Yes, the many book(s) you apparently missed. This is the consensus of most Theosophical, Theological, Philosophical and Psychological thought, as well as how almost all occult societies perceive the metaphorical meeting of the Serpent in the Garden of Eden.

If I might add, that it is Theologically, Lucifer the Angel that rebels against the Abrahamic God. His action is twofold. One, he will not bow down to the inferior Adam as God demands of Him, for Lucifer will bow to only that greater then He as God is. Secondly, this scenario introduces a new perspective on existence to Lucifer, one that God did not wish to be realized.

EM

I was actually aiming at this:

Satan the essence of Will and Rebellion, Belial of physical desires and Leviathan of the Mystery of Creation.

Ive never seen this way of "categorizing" it before. Where is it from?

EtuMalku

06-26-2010, 12:02 AM

I was actually aiming at this:

Ive never seen this way of "categorizing" it before. Where is it from? Ahh, sorry for the rant then!
I believe this exact information was first read from The Sacred Magic of Abremelin The Mage.

EM

Nevermore

08-06-2010, 12:25 PM

(I have spoken out at this forum before as a Skeptic, I am not a fan of Luciferianism - I find it too extremely complicated for theistic occultism. However, I am intrigued by some aspects of Theistic Satanism. I would of course not be an honest Satanist if I don't test these theories.)

I have read a few things by Diane Vera about LaVeyan Superman Syndrome and other aspects of disagreement on LaVeyanism, I have a tendency to agree them as read on. We shall see where the rabbit hole takes me.

~~

My inclination of how Satan created us is simply put: Evolution. There is absolutely no evidence for the Jewish creation myth of Genesis. Ever since Mathers and Darwin (who were Ironically religious even at the height of the publication of their works. Sadly, Darwin's wife divorced him because of his epic observation of the natural world.) Evolution has always earned the Devil's Name. Catholics scantly accept it and toss alot of guilt-ridden concepts into it, like original sin being a product of evolution. Through out our evolving existence paganism was believed to be the first broad spectrum of religions. Christianity comes 1500 years after Buddhism and robs the pagan world of its beauty while, tongue in cheek, slanders it for Devil Worship!

According to Jews, Christians, and Muslims self-reliance is an evil thing. Imagination and Consciousness seemed to be the awakening of our existence, the recognition of our duality as humans: Humanity and Animality. Growing up Christian I came the realization that whatever Christians don't like, or whatever scares the hell out of their faith-based religion, is instantly labeled as evil. The evil as interpreted by Christians is highly flawed an absent of any potential relativity.

Satan may have not created us, but the symbolic eating of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was our recognition of Satan. To me, I guess he was there all along, but like people in a malaise, they never realize it until they are out of it. The eating of the forbidden fruit is symbolic in all creation myths of world religions. It represents man's loss of innocence to Rational Thought and Observation, as means to approach a solution. Rather, than taking it all on face value. Like states before, Rational Approaches and Observation with evidence is absolutely evil to Christians as this method cannot be applied to God, Faith is the only way.

Nevermore

Kain

08-06-2010, 01:59 PM

god wanted him to worship man and he refused ,thats how the story goes,why do you think he doesnt,look what he did to poor job
With all due respect this can be found only in an unofficial gospel. The real story is that Satan wanted to be stronger than God:

'I will ascend into heaven,
Above the stars of God
Will I exalt my throne;
And I will sit upon the mount of meeting,
In the uttermost parts of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will be like the Most High.'

(Yes these are Satan's words in the Bible)...

And... With all due respect again, it's king Leonidas, not "Leonitus"... and yes one of Satan's represantions (because Satan has many represantations, just like God) looks like Leonidas a lot (Lucifer representation to be exact).

By the way, Satan is called "Lord of this World" not "Prince of this World"... It's different :)

Sorry for the off-topic. I'm done now...

ßelial

08-07-2010, 11:40 PM

None created us. We are Gods of ourselves. Don't accept these mythologies. Just follow Science and Real Universe... there is nothing exists in Universe but Material.

Kain

08-07-2010, 11:55 PM

None created us. We are Gods of ourselves. Don't accept these mythologies. Just follow Science and Real Universe... there is nothing exists in Universe but Material.
Then why did you choose the name "Belial" if "Lord Belial" does not exist?

ßelial

08-09-2010, 05:28 AM

Because Satanism is the sign of the Anti-God idea. If you want to destroy nothing you must use anti-nothing weapon.
Satanic idea courages me to save and protect my wishes against Religious obstacles.
If you want to say ''You are false !'' to a jewish/christian/muslim, don't hide out behind of Lucifer's mask like a sheep. Scream and tell ''The things that you believe all are FALSE !'' The real Satanism is that ! You are the God of yourself and you are existing until you keep your power ON.

Kain

08-09-2010, 04:18 PM

ßelial

08-09-2010, 04:59 PM

Kain

08-09-2010, 07:11 PM

True, that's Atheism. Also I am an Atheist. I perceive the real Satanism is not with the Spiritualism, but it's related to Anti-Mythology (Jesus, Moses, YHWH, Muhammed) etc.
Satanism is a door which is opened to the wishes that you cannot do while you follow a religion.
You are only an atheist not a Satanist. If you don't believe in the existance of any God (regardless if you call him Jehovah, Allah, or Satan) then you are just an atheist. Not a Satanist. Regardless of your other beliefs about humanity / universe / religion.

EtuMalku

08-09-2010, 08:30 PM

I was actually aiming at this:

Ive never seen this way of "categorizing" it before. Where is it from?Sorry for the belated reply. This ArchDaemonic pecking order is how the Church of Satan and The Temple of Set understand them.

EtuMalku

08-09-2010, 10:53 PM

yep. that's it.The majority of 'satanists' are in fact pragmatic atheists and not theistic satanists.

So O.F. member Belasko may very well be a 'satanist'!

Kain

08-10-2010, 01:51 AM

The majority of 'satanists' are in fact pragmatic atheists and not theistic satanists.

So O.F. member Belasko may very well be a 'satanist'!
LaVeyans call themselves "Satanists" just to provoke... though I believe that LaVey deceived them all... I think we all know the arguments about if LaVey was really an atheistic Satanist or a "Diabolist".

Light

08-11-2010, 06:55 AM

That is so interesting that your view is this, that earth is hell. This is something that was actually taught in my school growing up in Finland - Earth was actually taught as being hell, and when Lucifer was sent down to earth (earth/hell, long before there was no light, no humans etc..in total darkness and all alone) and left here, as the light bearer for the ones that had lost their way in the darkness, before the day came where there where life...In that story God was the creator of the beginning and Lucifer was not evil, just a different element, so God and Lucifer both of them could never co-exist...God was more of a passive force, true that he did create the beginning of everything , but that was it ... Lucifer was another element, wisdom ,knowledge, truth, evolution etc...
In that story God created Adam and Eve, knowing that one day would come, when Adam and Eve wanted to eat from the tree...etc.. Adam and Eve where also warned by God that the day would come, when they would choose to eat from the tree, even if they did not beleive him, and God was sad when it did eventually happen, but accepting, as he had created them so, he also knew this would eventually be ....

The thing with dying ,yes, both Adam and Eve did die in this story, but later, as after eating from the tree, they had a human life and where not forever in paradise..with it came pain ,but also knowledge, the gift of creating life etc... so humans continued the work of God through their own making..Lucifer was here to shine the light for us, if we lost our way...etc...Everything was beautiful in this story, nothing was evil, just difficult at times, but something that was part of what it was meant to be.....however , there was something else that later on, came along , something called Ahriman. that was reffered to as Satan, but that's a whole different chapter in itself...

You're from Sweden , I'm just wondering where this view, would have come from...I also wonder if the mythologies taught to us culturally and over generations, has something to do with how people percieve and tell the bible stories, in different countries....
I think this soo fasinating to see everyones ideas and beleifs of the same book and books....:)

EtuMalku

08-11-2010, 02:21 PM

all you laveyan,luciferian,theistic,diabolist,and plain ole satanist-your all devil-worshippers,all of you,if you dont even believe that Satan exists,your a devil-worshipper,so dont argue about it,you are all in the same boat.So,remember Jesus will forgive you if you askThis doesn't make any sense. Unless you are just kidding around, I would like to discuss some of your veiwpoints.

Perhaps Diabolists and Theistic Satanists 'worship' the Devil incarnate as Satan, but the rest don't.

Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.

Now, atheism is not a path it is a philosophy, therefore when a Luciferian talks about Lucifer, they are talking about the Principle in which Lucifer is concieved, because they don't believe that these deities exist but they do understand that the Principle exists, big difference.

Christianity is a full blown delusion of deities and worship and servitude. Jesus, if he actually existed, was nothing more than a man with an idea. It is 'WE' who has given him his power and GodHead.

Yeshua the Nazarene can't save anyone. anymore than I can.

Ir Shti Shta-tu
EM

Light

08-12-2010, 03:18 AM

Hmmm.....well, the stories that where told at this school at that level, was an introduction to our theology lessons, mythology lessons, etc... Later the stories where re-visited and seen as more symbolic rather than, how it literally was ...When some of the students, asked the teachers about was this really what happened , they would always reply that these are the stories that where told by people, many years ago, so you will have to work out for yourselves, what you beleive in , as everyone will beleive differently, as we all are unique....
Therefore I think there where never a sence of hostility to any faith or religion, but only an acceptance that this is what was told, we had to work out what it meant for ourselves, if we chose to do so... Some didn't care , that was also alright, as we where all different...also, we where given in one of the lessons a few practise sessions of 'seeing how, stories travel', where one person gives information and it would travel through the class with the students and the last student, would then write down, what they heard from the second last student...this exapmle was given, to show how everyone percieved things differently, asume different things, etc...and what it can end up being.
At times it was quite factual of what had been said by the first student, but most of the time it was totally different...
I think it did makes us more humble at an very early age and see things in a different way, more of an witness to what we where taught , rather than being in a place of debating who is right or wrong and what's true or not...it became more of an :- it is what it is....maybe an openess as well, that has carried with me to my adulthood, to find the path best suited for me and still going on, with learning more ....
And as far as God, what is it ? Who is he ? How can anyone seriously answear this, in a logical way, that everyone can understand or relate to...all I can see is that, we can all share our own amazingly different perceptions, what we've read, what we've learned through our own life experiences, .. etc...
I personally do not beleive in a man sitting on a cloud, looking down at us, but it to be more complex than that....
And Jesus, yes I do belive he was a man with a new way of thinking in his time or maybe the thought of a man like Jesus, was needed in that era and that time, for things to shift again, it really being just evolution..

Blessings to you all :)

devakxes

08-12-2010, 03:34 AM

The oldest cults that worshipped Satan were supposed to be the Cathars who viewed God to be one and the same with the Biblical Devil. The main schism was that some worshipped Jesus and thought he was not the devil. These people were ascetics and were called ''The Perfect''. However, some indulged in Sin and worldly practices because they believed that Jesus was truely the son of the devil.

There were also similar gnostic cults that worshipped Satan believeing him to be a rebel archon (ruler) who desired us to be freed... since we had the divine spark and could be liberated. This group of gnostics believed the world to be evil and God to be the true ''evil one''. Satan was the liberator who could return the world to Chaos... its' true original purity.

You also had gnostic cults that believed satan and god were one and that the true spiritual pleroma (group of gods who functioned as One... and thus in a sense were one just as your feet and hands are both parts of you) was the true God. However, this ''demiurge'' created by Sophia (wisdom)... created Matter... except he lost his divinity through the creation of matter and this was passed on to Adam and Eve. Now it is our turn to go and break free from matter. Matter is evil because it is not ideal and the creator was made separate from the pleroma. Thus the demiurge is Satan and is supposed to be equated with the old testament God. Jesus was seen by the gnostics to be an Aeon or part of the pleroma... and was sent to redeem us from this world.

I don't hold these beliefs, btw.

Kain

08-12-2010, 08:07 AM

Since you are talking about satanic cults be sure not everything is what it seems. The original concept of Lucifer was / is that He is the same spirit as The Great Dragon (Devil / Satan / Apollyon / Ancient Serpent etc.) of the Apocalypse. This because in the Apocalypse says that the Great Dragon was cast down to earth and His ANGELS were cast down with Him. It doesn't say "Demons" or "Devils"... In the first chapter (I think) of the Apocalypse from the other side the God Himself says that Lucifer is not only the first Angel... He was not only the most beautiful angel (as Issaiah says)... He was also created the STRONGEST and the BRIGHTEST of every other angel. Why does the Apocalypse mention this since it was already mentioned in Issaiah's book? I guess because John wanted us to understand that this strong and WISE angel could not just say "I WILL BE BETTER THAN GOD!!!" and when God casts Him down to earth He does nothing for revenge or to complete his goal in becoming the ruler of the universe.

It's obvious that He was not just a rebel who wanted freedom. He didn't want freedom He wanted more power. This is obvious.

Note: I've already said that I respect both God and Lucifer (though I am considered as an enemy by Him) and I just choose to follow God.

Note 2: After a little research I watched a midnight Greek TV broadcast in which a Christian (I think) occultist talked about the "Bible of the Satanists". Of course when we say Satanists we are speaking about Diabolists. So he also mentioned that this book has almost the same age as the Apocalypse meaning it's a 2000 (about) year old book. He also mentioned that it was written by a Roman (I think) that Diabolists believe he is now a demon. He finally mentioned that this book completes the story about the beasts and the Great Dragon of Revelation. It's something like... The testament of the Archangel of Evil... Of course the name of the book was not in English or in Greek so I can't remember it.

Note 2: I know I didn't explain things so well. Hope next time I'll do better...