Is it possible

[QueenBeeBeeMarie]

Is it possible to levitate.I have heard people say that if you play the game Light as a feather,stiff as a board you will levitate.Or if you go deep enough into meditation you can levitate.If so can someone please tell me how.I have always wanted to levitate like Criss Angel

[QueenBeeBeeMarie]

Oh,I know Criss Angel is an illusionist,I just meant I wish I could levitate like that for real.I always wanted to levitate as soon as I knew about it.

[PYRE]

is glamor and illusion not a magical discipline?

[QueenBeeBeeMarie]

Criss Angel is just an illusionist it isn't real magic or magic of any form.He is more a stunt man then anything else.If you want to call it something you can call it an art form I suppose.Though,even that is kind of insulting to artists so just call it stage magic or street magic which is fake magic.

[PYRE]

well, belasko, that is precisely my point. perhaps my definition is broader than ceremonial practices, but also practical means by which to impart ones will.

i can see that validating Mr. Angel struck a cord with somebody. maybe he does ceremonial magick as well, but keeps that part of his life secret, as most of us do, im sure.

and Ms. Marrie, im positive artist would not find Mr. Angels antics insulting to be insinuated as an art form, as anything can become artistic, and graceful.

[PYRE]

im sure this isnt necessary but if he does any ceremonial magick, i am aware it has nothing to do with his performances. and ive only seen a few of his shows, and dont know much about him personally, im assuming most everyone else doesnt care enough to look into as well, im just pointing out that the first recipe for glue was considered magic in its time. no reason it doesnt have to lose any status now that their is empirical evidence to show us why it works.

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

I am curious . Those of you who do not count illusion or glamour as Magic . How would you define Magic . I like Crowleys definition : "the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with the will" Is an illusionist not using KEY WORD : ILLUSIONS to conform reality to his will ? ceremonial magic to me is only one kind of magic and is akin to self hypnosis . So what makes illusions then less Magic than self hypnosis ? I put forth that Mr. Angel is in fact a vary successful practitioner of the art of magic as he has successfully caused reality to conform with his will in a big way .

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

Enlighten me please

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

So what kinda magic do you guys practice that is not fantasy as u call it ? serious question ! What is this Real magic u are implying ? im curious , if im such a fool than help me out .

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

Oh yes THE SECRET . How vary new ageish (1879). Its interesting but i would not rely on it alone if i had to really make sure i achieve some thing . But such a thing only falls into the category of magic and is not magic alone . Magic to me is achieved by mind body and soul working together . Illusion would be another kind of magic used to deceive confuse entertain or impress ( there r probably other uses too ). The desire being to achieve one of those in a situation were it would be tactically useful . But maybe its my use of many kinds of magic that lets me be so successful . There are many other kinds to though ! I stand by the point that magic is causing reality to conform with will . Dosent matter if you do it on hopes and dreams or strength of will or charisma or intellectual prowess .

[QueenBeeBeeMarie]

Lord deliver me. propose all you want and stay in your fantasy world. why are we having such a mundane and silly discussion on a serious occult forum with the high caliber of members here? when i last looked we were not you tube or a role playing forum.

I'm sorry Miss.Isabeau,I didn't mean to cause this mess.I am actually trying to learn.I didn't think it would cause one of Criss Angel's fans to start an argument like this.

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

I'm sorry Miss.Isabeau,I didn't mean to cause this mess.I am actually trying to learn.I didn't think it would cause one of Criss Angel's fans to start an argument like this.

actually for the record i dont like criss angel . Im defending illusion as a form of magic , and you have nothing to apologize for . We are simply disagreeing on what constitutes magic and a occult forum and this topic is a good place for it however it does not seem they wish to debate the issue so its over , no mess about it .

[zero]

real magic is the creation of reality. illusion is veiling reality.

chris angel is in the vein of con men, but ones who give's your wallet back.

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

real magic is the creation of reality. illusion is veiling reality.

chris angel is in the vein of con men, but ones who give's your wallet back.

The reality the illusionist is attempting to create is not to make your wallet vanish but to create amazement a show and to get payed which is all real there for reality and there for he has conformed reality to his will .

[zero]

yes he is a payed entertainer.

[PYRE]

phf, next your going to tell me professional wrestling is a fraud??? lol

but seriously, what are you going to call yourselves when empirical evidence can bring to light all the psychoactive parts of ritual? when in a couple decades science and magic share the same definition, as they did earlier in human history?

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

real magic is the creation of reality. illusion is veiling reality.

chris angel is in the vein of con men, but ones who give's your wallet back.

So will none of you attempt to define magic scenes Crowlys definition you seem to disagree with ?

Yes the illusionist created a REAL vail over reality as was his goal . So than this stills fits your definition of creating reality . I maybe wrong but it seems you are implying magic is telling the truth all the time which seems to me more about ethics in magic and not magic it self . And if telling the truth all the time and revealing how things are done was apart of it than would the word occult it self not lose its meaning ? Would there not be detailed directions on how to levitate or other such abilities ?

If revealing the truth was so important to what magic is would you be avoiding the questions i have asked instead of side stepping them with everyone of your posts ?

What do you consider magic than ?

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

yes he is a payed entertainer.


So lets say i can levitate , and i go out on the street and levitate , and i mean no tricks , im really doing it . And say i put out a hat and passerbuyers throw some coins in to sed hat , because they are entertained by my levitating , is this not magic cause im using it to entertain and potentially make money ?

And is illusion not used for none entertainment purpose ? Say camouflage ? disguises ? in WW2 an illusionist caused the Luftwaffe to totally miss there targets saving a city from destruction .

[QueenBeeBeeMarie]

You are actually levitating,so that would be magic.Criss uses a crane and camera angles (or I heard he has some kind of suit that he controls with his stomach muscles) to trick people.Therefore,he is not using authentic magic and just street or fake magic.
Real magic is you see what you get and no illusions or behind the scenes tricks are used.

I honestly,don't think I can explain it any better to you...

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

You are actually levitating,so that would be magic.Criss uses a crane and camera angles (or I heard he has some kind of suit that he controls with his stomach muscles) to trick people.Therefore,he is not using authentic magic and just street or fake magic.
Real magic is you see what you get and no illusions or behind the scenes tricks are used.

I honestly,don't think I can explain it any better to you...

You are missing the point . It is a REAL illusion yes , we are not debating if criss can levitate , he can not , he uses a fake leg that hangs were his leg should be and uses his real foot to step up on a ledge or what ever is available . This is how he does the street levitation .

Real magic is not defined by " you get what you see" . All magic works for a reason . If so than the answer is no , no one can levitate . The human body simply does not produce and force capable of it and was not designed/evolved too . Light as a feather stiff as a board ? No , the way this is done is that the people are lifting the person up on the tips of there fingers wail in a light trance , the affect achieved seems like the person feels light and is easy to lift but they never leave your fingers . IT IS ALSO AN ILLUSION .

Magic is conforming reality to your will . You wanna levitate ? you will need a anti-gravity device or go to space . Both of which will take immense amount of conforming reality to your will .

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

You really wanna learn magic ? Than learn to open your mind first . There is no rule that magic has to be esoteric . This is also an illusion used by cult leaders and there ilk to hide the fact that they got nothing to teach you . Magic is about producing effects in the real world , pulling things from the microcosmic inner plain into the macrocosmic reality . Its when the mind body and spirit work together to achieve great things . Its about being able to identify sources of power , understanding them and learning to bind them to your will . Its about having an understanding of reality so great that you can commune with your surroundings . Its about REAL skill .

[kid kunjer]

it seems to me that illusion and magic do share similarities...
magic could be described as the utilisation of forces or mechanics unknown to the general populace to achieve some end.
illusion does just that albeit with different forces.
I'd say the more adept you are at manipulating reality, the more it would seem a similar artform to illusion.
is there really so much difference between Qi and invisible wires?

[zero]

I suppose we all use magic then in that regard. so if i work at a steel fabrication shop and for metal to my desire via the clients/my own specification I am performing magic?

[QueenBeeBeeMarie]

No,I got that but you don't seem to get that an illusion is not magic.

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

I suppose we all use magic then in that regard. so if i work at a steel fabrication shop and for metal to my desire via the clients/my own specification I am performing magic?

Yes .(Mind) The object was first in your head/minds eye/astral plain what ever name you use , Than you used skill/wisdom/intelligence/the knowledge so often called power ( binding power being a central theme here ) what ever mental powers you have /psychic powers you have ( Definition : of or relating to the soul or mind ) Root being psychi : this has nothing to do with unexplainable abilities unless you simply dont understand them in which case they would be mystifying to you EX: mathematician/architect/masons who could build castles back in the day were considered a kind of magician as were physicians : masters of the healing arts ( cause these things were a rare skill ) . problem is wen they become to widely know they are not considered mystifying anymore and they become considered mundane which is sad because people dont pursue them with as much devotion .)

( Body/spirit) Now you are forging the object , You are collecting the reagents and binding them to form a body for the thing in your mind , you imbue it with meaning , your style , you can build a difficult thing that takes time cause your spirit is resilient , strong , wise etc . With out your spirit in it is nothing but random matter . You have turned a thought into a material thing , separate of a human mind and its parts it was not what it is now .

You have successfully manifested/ conjured / bent ( not broke ) reality to your will to make a tool to further your ability to bend reality to your will .

There are other kind totally different from this though like having a wisdom/understanding so great about a thing you can commune with it like for instance a park ranger or druid might have about nature .

Some people seem to have the idea that i dont consider things like the law of attraction or Sympathetic etc as real magic . I do , but they are not what magic is . We would probably disagree as to the why and how they work though .

Funny how your the one telling me to open my mind when it seems your the one who closed it to anything not in one of them new fangled occult books from the mall book store . And im sorry but magic takes real skill and strong personal attributes to be strong .

It seems to me that magic here is being defined as something mystical / esoteric / unknown to most but that would only be what occult means . What happens when lets say sympathetic magic becomes well understood ? Is it no longer magic ? No its just no longer as mystical / mystifying . Things only become mundane when you stop appreciating them . Or when there is no longer a mind around ( or too dull a mind ) to animate them , to share life with them .

You say magic is super natural . I agree . Examine the word SUPER NATURAL . NATURAL but super , a enhanced natural ability , enhanced through strong personal attributes and so the illusionist took some thing we all can innately do ( conceal reality ( like a lie )) and practiced and learned skills handed down to be able to SUPER conceal reality . The guy working steel is the same way . So is your doctor , he is a wizard of the human body . So is the math wiz etc etc etc

Magic can be a part of a religion but is not a religion , there is no Dogma the dogma belongs to the religion and religion is usually a product of magic . It is a vary broad thing , and to some degree innate in all intelligent beings but the true mage is an artist at it , he studies and experiments and is vary scientifically minded about it . Truth is another power to bind for him self . . . Magic becomes a part of his whole life and vary way of thinking . He surfs reality wail some swim but most only learn to wade and others drown . He is strong and rules your entire society and you probably dont even see them cause of there illusions that allow them invisibility . They "vail reality". ( Not all do some abstain completely others some were in between .) . Im sorry but you cant put magic in a box and label it unless you use a vary broad label , but that might not even do it .

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

it seems to me that illusion and magic do share similarities...
magic could be described as the utilisation of forces or mechanics unknown to the general populace to achieve some end.
illusion does just that albeit with different forces.
I'd say the more adept you are at manipulating reality, the more it would seem a similar artform to illusion.
is there really so much difference between Qi and invisible wires?

The core of illusion is understanding human perception not invisible wires :)

Also by saying "different forces" you are implying magic is limited to certain forces , if so than which ones and why ? Please dont give a generic or unspecific answer like SUPER NATURAL or PARANORMAL ones . I spoke to that in the post above . well super natural anyway .

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

Belasko , I dont think you have heard a word i have said . No one said criss is actually doing those things , try reading before posting rather than just posting based on what your friends have said maybe ? The guy calls him self an illusionist , that should tell you right there its an illusion , thats not what we are debating .

Isabeau , no one said or implyed anything about super heros , soddex is the one talking about breaking physical laws with knowledge of nature unknown to science so that would really be the closest thing . First off breaking physical laws is no big deal they are generalization based on empirical observations which can be false to begin with , science often breaking its own laws . So what happens when science learns and understands these laws of nature ? Do they no longer count as magic then ? Do we not practice the occult science here ? Magic is a science and a art and more . Your definition of super natural as superior to nature ( above as you called it ) Same thing ) rather than superior nature contradicts your argument that magic is using laws of nature to break physical laws . Are they laws OF nature or are they superior to nature ?

[QueenBeeBeeMarie]

BLiGHTERGHAST, Now I will answer yes you can learn to levitate, and yes it has been done and is possible by experienced and knowledgeable magickians. Do you think it hasn't been done? Know this, no one in his right mind is going to tell anyone how it is accomplished. I can't deal with this guy anymore.

Wait,why not?I really want to know.

[QueenBeeBeeMarie]

Oh,okay.I will just respect his wishes then.

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

Wait,why not?I really want to know.

Beacause he cant . Beacause there is an element of illusion used by most magicians , they just hate the fact that im saying it out loud . See now if you wanna know you have to join his order , and that hook is the real intent .
Makes it all seem so mystirous and deep .

Oh boy ima get blasted for saying that lol . Its ok , its amusing how they mostly just attack me rather than debate the point and when they do they contradict each other and even them selves . More expiriance than me ? HA! i seriously dout it .

The closest thing to levitation would be haveing a higher dementional being lift you up , kinda like simon magus . Good luck with that though . An anti-gravity device would be a better rout in my opinion . Just be careful the last guy who had one had to go into hidding cause he got stoned for being a witch down in Florida .

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

You are a real dick head aren't you?

Why do you say that ?

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

Ignore the dick head if you want to know here is my email. [email protected]. I normally only do this for my order bur thew little **** has pissed me off. Remember this the peon can't back up his words so he attacks, he will learn soon enough.


HA! There you go marie , i hope he has somthing of value to actually teach you ! Never say i never did anything for you lol j/k Though i bet it will be a lesson in pesudo esoteric mumbojumbo . Belasko , You seem sooo in controll of your emotions and vary mature in the way you call people names ! Master can i get your email to so you can teach me your ways ??

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

i think because you are? sometimes the people you upset are the ones you can learn from. if Belasko had his way you would be a tattoo on a piece of paper. advice don't upset him.

Im trembling . Also i think hes made it clear that i have already upset him .

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

**** off you pathetic piss ant. Do i see ban in your future you little piss of ****? yes i do. don't **** with me kid, i will be in your dreams.

Oh boy hes mad now ! well its been fun but this is getting silly now . Harry potter lol yeah im the one living in a fantacy world ! Oh and i think its you that are breaking forum rules but really i couldnt care less if i got band , besides i could always come back on a new name lol ( not like i would bother ) , im sure your safe cause your all buddy buddy with the mods but i would also never wish that on you . And if your buddies ban me it will only show intellectual fascism and favoritism .

[QueenBeeBeeMarie]

Oh boy hes mad now ! well its been fun but this is getting silly now . Harry potter lol yeah im the one living in a fantacy world ! Oh and i think its you that are breaking forum rules but really i couldnt care less if i got band , besides i could always come back on a new name lol ( not like i would bother ) , im sure your safe cause your all buddy buddy with the mods but i would also never wish that on you . And if your buddies ban me it will only show intellectual fascism and favoritism .

Dude,why are you behaving like this and mocking everyone?If you believe in Science and all why don't you go talk on a Science forum.You know you could never convince people who really believe in something otherwise so why waste your time.All you are doing is roweling up a man who never did you anything.I asked a simple question and now you have caused a fight over it.I seriously,dislike when I feel I caused trouble and you are making me feel that way.Please stop.

[QueenBeeBeeMarie]

I just don't want to cause any trouble for you or anyone else here.You have helped me so much and I am so thankful for that.

[BLiGHTERGHAST]

Dude,why are you behaving like this and mocking everyone?If you believe in Science and all why don't you go talk on a Science forum.You know you could never convince people who really believe in something otherwise so why waste your time.All you are doing is roweling up a man who never did you anything.I asked a simple question and now you have caused a fight over it.I seriously,dislike when I feel I caused trouble and you are making me feel that way.Please stop.

I was only mocking Belasko and he started with the aggression a few pages back . Im sorry you feel that you started this , but its not even a big deal really . Besides debate is a good thing so i dont understand why your so upset , behaving like what ? im not calling people names at least . Science forum ? Is magic not a science ? Is science not just a word the church uses to separate fields of study into what is allowed and what is not ? You know what dont answer that , im bored of this topic now , please no one direct anymore posts at me .

[Aradia]

I was asked to CLOSE this thread, AND open it back up when things settle down.

[Jackal]

This thread is retarded...

That theory had no sense in it at all..