ToS

[Octavia156]

"The ToS is a less disciplined re-working of the A.'.A.'. system...." Discuss.:rolleyes:

[EtuMalku]

are you just basing this assumption on the grading system or do you have anything else to back that up?



"The ToS is a less disciplined re-working of the A.'.A.'. system...." Discuss.:rolleyes:

[EtuMalku]

I've read many of your posts and find you far from ignorant!
We don't have any tasks to progress in grade.
Each member's Recognition to the next grade is unique, and is totally up to them and guided by the Priesthood.
As for Crowley's system, we are actually strikingly different in the respect that the Temple of Set is a True Left Hand Path while the A.'.A.'. and all Thelemic systems are in reality Right Hand Paths that seek atonement with the Higher Self and the Objective Universe.

Xeper is a moment of Self-Divinity, the Word is a complex subject and worthy of its own thread. A simple analogy is; you are in the middle of a severe car accident, it all happens in a moment. You walk away from what should have been imminent bodily damage, but you are fine. The Xeper is the fleeting nanosecond where you are living in the heart of the accident, ultimate wakefulness and gnosis of the situation. Then it is over.
Remanifestation is what you do with this after the fact.

You are a Thelemite? We are 'all' magickal brothers!
And Yes, Horus / Set in Setian philosophy is called HarWer/Set . . . being that HarWer (Horus the Elder) exists so that Set may exist in the Objective Universe.

I may be off on some of these concepts and I Do Not speak for the Temple, but I do enjoy discussing this with you and whomever else interested. (debate is fine too)

EM



This assumption is based on my ignorance and a conversation with a Setian member of the ToS :)

The grading systems is similar, but also the terminology and the individual tasks of the grades. They are very similar in fact, they appear less disciplined and much more materialistic in parts, but the ultimate goals are quite comparable.

Is Xeper akin to K&C of HGA for eg... or the Prince of Darkness to the Night of N.O.X.

Do both Orders achieve the same goal in essence... are they the same thing under a different guise...... or are they opposite side of one coin.. or are they utterly individual?

I find the similarities and differences between these orders really interesting. Horus and Set are two sides of the same God after all...

Even though we'd definitely argue over semantics... can/should I look upon Setians as 'Brothers' I wonder?

"As Brothers fight we?"

This is the essence of my question

[Light]

Thank you for this ! :)

[EtuMalku]

I know there are study groups in the Temple that work with Thelema

As a first degree I only know how my progress and eventual Recognition works, and yes, it is a personal dialogue between myself and the Priesthood. I do have tasks and assignments on a regular basis, but they are different than for another first degree, sort of tailor made I guess you would say.

Ok, I see. I am not as familiar with Thelema as I could be, but I do know what you are talking about with the Abyss and the Black Brothers (those who go towards Self-Deification).


Is Setianism Thelemic do you think?

If there are no tasks fo the grades how does one progress? Is it self conference only?

For the most part the A.'.A.'. is LHP with a RHP flavour.... up until the Abyss where I see potential for a clear choice between LHP and RHP. (Success being through the RHP.,... the LHP of Thelemic equates to the grade of Babe of the Abyss and the title of Black Brother.

[Light]

What books would you recommend to read, other than the books listed in the website...:)

[EtuMalku]

What books would you recommend to read, other than the books listed in the website...:)
Surely; Amazon.com: Mysteries of the Temple of Set (Inner Teachings of the Left Hand Path) (9781885972279): Don Webb: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Mysteries-Temple-Inner-Teachings-Left/dp/188597227X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286385298&sr=1-1)

Amazon.com: Uncle Setnakt's Essential Guide to the Left Hand Path (9781885972101): Don Webb, Stephen E. Flowers: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Uncle-Setnakts-Essential-Guide-Left/dp/1885972105/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286385298&sr=1-2)

[devakxes]

I've gotten a hold of some of the documents of the Order of Leviathan that is a part of The Temple of Set.

From what I've read from ''Gems of The Trail''

The aeons are to be viewed in a progressive manner.
The Aeon of Horus had the word ''Thelema'' which is ''Will''. In order to Xeper, one must have the Will to do so. Xeper is obviously a very multi-faceted and magickal word... but they (The Order of Leviathan) view that before the Aeon of Set (whose word is Xeper who we are in now) was the Aeon of Satan (whose word was Indulgence).

Thelema + Indulgence was an interesting combination but it led to corruption of the human being and to crimes. Thelema + Indulgence + Xeper leads to achieving one's greatest and most honorable dreams.

From what I have seen they view Thelema and Setianism to be very similar. The difference is where the ultimate goal lies (obviously this has already been stated in this thread) but also in Setianism they go deeper into the concept of what is ''The Black Brother'' and redefine that term.

Crowley basically states that they are shut up in themselves and they are poisoned by their own materialistic pursuits. Setianism views this to be a form of stasis and so views the ''Black Brothers'' as defined by Crowley as a means of creating an imaginary devil in order to justify his desire to dissolve into Nuit (The All).

Obviously the philosophy of Setianism is not one of stasis and materialism (though it does incorporate worldly success). It is one of progression, consistent transformation and refinement of the Self.

[EtuMalku]

My understanding of an Aeon is simply an attitude which one chooses or is conditioned to adopt. Aeons may overlap as well as co-exist during other Aeons, there is no need to be done with one before another is Uttered into existence.

[devakxes]

According to the document I have, your understanding is correct, EtuMalku.
This is because the word ''Agape'' which is the meaning of ''spontaneous love'' was experienced by the members of the Temple of Set. They feel unity in knowing that their ''brothers'' are like-minded.

Though it isn't necessarily an attitude according to the Order of Leviathan but more like a paradigm/subjective universe. The problem is that subjective universes become outdated as time passes on. The growth and power of Agape for example, is compared in the article to a propeller airplane while the Word ''Xeper'' is akin to a Jet Airplane. Agape was used to elevate the soul to a state of superiority by saying that it can ''be close to God'' and experience God on an interpersonal level that before this was ''only'' experienced by priests. Thelema states instead ''You are God''. Lavey Satanism stated ''If you are God. You should live like one.'' Setianism states that you can become the God that you desire to be and achieve all of your highest dreams.


As a Thelemite I do not acknowledge that the Aeon of Horus has ended, in fact it is just beginning. For the Aeon to be complete and for there to be the need for a new Aeon - the old Law must be defunct and require replacement.

That replacement - as with all previous Aeons - will be something utterly different to what came before. This is the evolutionary nature of Aeonic progression...

Consider also that Aiwaz said "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". We are not yet living in a state of Liberty, a huge proportion of mankind are still living in states of superstition, tyranny and oppression.
We have not fully conquered Osiris yet! 'Do what thou wilt' is not yet the whole of the Law. When it is, we'll be ready for the next stage in our evolution.


Xeper for me appears too similar be a new Aeon isn't it more like 'the other side of the same coin.' like Xeper is Thelema written in another language

What do you think?

The Aeons become components then. There is the ''progression'' but depending on the particular aeonic word you are focused on, the other aeons become components.



I agree. All of the aeonic words before Thelema were all based on the idea of unity and love, but also on the idea of conquering the fear of death, as well as understanding that divinity is personal. It wasn't ''the aeon of christ'' and then '' the aeon of muhhamed''. It was simply ''The Aeon of Osiris''. In truth, all Setians are in a Thelemic sense ''Thelemites'' because of exactly what you have said. I wish I could remember which book specifically this was written in but it also says that there will be other Magi to come that will utter the Word in a different language and help manifest ''Thelema''.

Agape united nations under the symbol of the dying christ which would conquer death through defeating sin. ''Allah'' united the tribes of the middle east under One God as well as destroyed the belief of Fatalism. They believed before in predestination and that once you die, you would go to a gloomy afterlife (no exceptions). Allah though is a ''compassionate and merciful God'' who would allow the follower the chance to go to paradise.

The same thing applies to Setianism and Thelema except I can't see the pattern besides ''You are God'' and ''Do what thou Will''. Oh and also the liberal views of both systems as well as being above nature.

[EtuMalku]

devakxes: just so you know, I am a member of the TOS

Concerning the Subjective Universe getting old . . . indeed, stasis is the Apophic enemy of the Setian.

Xeper has been Re-Uttered since Dr. Aquino first Uttered it.

A good discussion!

[devakxes]

There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt - You are God
Do that and no other shall nay - Live like one
Love is the Law, Love under Will - Fulfill your highest dreams

I know its because I can ignorant but I've found nothing new in Setianism. Xeper sounds like K&C of HGA... The Prince of Darkness could be in N.O.X.. does it all boil down semantics in the end?


The attainment (in my understanding) is different in the end.
For example, the Ipsissimus in Thelema is able to perceive the infinite. The difference in them is that the Ipsissimus in Setianism/Luciferianism tends to perceive the infinite as well but still retains one's identity. It is akin to Set slaying Apep. Apep in this case being chaos and infinity. The Setian keeps one's self separate from it so it doesn't dissolve but gladly throws one's self into Apep so that it can repeat the process of separation and grow from the interactions. The Ipsissimus of Thelema just unites with the infinite and becomes a vessel of it. Different side for the same coin. However, I could have described that better - you are correct. In Thelema - the idea is that the goal is to unite with the Infinite. Lavey Satanism's ''Indulge'' was more of a means of showing us what ''greatness'' is and to basically help manifest ''do what thou will''. Xeper however... is not about uniting with the infinite but becoming infinite (or a power of the infinite) in your own right.

And I am sorry if I have offended you EtuMalku. I don't know if the understanding of every member is the same within the Temple of Set. That is why I kept mentioning the Order of Leviathan and the article that I have attained. I guess is what I am trying to say is - I don't know what the similarities in beliefs are that unite Setians. I've a general grasp from reading the website and from studying the left hand path itself. However, I don't know everything. I was just trying to help explain from what knowledge I know. As I said, I have great respect for you and your wisdom.