Devil Traps?

[justinkl75]

I know this is a silly question but, if anyone has seen supernatural, those symbols they used on the show called Devil's traps that if a demon is within its boundaries it will be trapped or contained. Is there anything actually like this in real life, any type of symbols or magical seals, circles, or sigils, that will trap a demon inside of it? Are there any type of magical boundaries whatsoever that can be created that will trap a demonic entity within it? sometimes television uses stuff from actual things, not always but sometimes. Let me know anyone that knows about this.

[Broomhilda]

Why do I have images of Elmer Fudd trying to trap Bugs Bunny?
Supernatural is a entertainment show its written out and those are actors you see in front of a camera. TV Supernatural is not a semi Docu-Drama on the Occult.

[chestermccoy]

Yes, and no. While I have not personally seen the show, save one or two episodes, there are "traps" that serve the same purpose, but not in the same way, as you mention. In almost every grimoire, a magical circle to protect the magician is called. Usually it is accompanied by another circle to entrap the entity being summoned, or another geometric shape. It is this way that one might protect oneself and one's environment from any negative effects of conjuring a spiritual entity. It is doubtful, however, that one could engineer a "demon trap" similar to an animal trap. The kind of trap where you wait for something to walk into it and then become ensnared. It would also be rather impractical as demons aren't really just running around willy-nilly. Unless you somehow baited the trap, it would likely sit for many years before you could catch a demon...... I recommend, if this subject greatly interests you, that you read the classic grimoires, namely, the Lesser Key of Solomon. I hope I was able to answer your questions.

[Gemnus32]

The old skool phrase is, 'to homunculize an egregore.' The homonculus itself is the container. It could be simply a drawing on paper, but more would more often be something like a seal or a medallion. The egregore is the, 'spirit,' that will enter the container so that magic can be done. As far back as the Golden Dawn, the egregore was seen as a, 'thought construct.' However, in the older skool an egregore would have been a spirit.

[Broomhilda]

again I am speachless and amazed. Okay a Witches circle is not a Devil trap Witches do not believe in Devils. So our circles are not created to trap devils.

okay I also would like to point out the TV show Full Metal Alchemist isnt real.
The definition of Homunculus (masculine, Latin for "little human", plural: "homunculi"; from the diminutive of homo) is a term used, generally, in various fields of study to refer to any representation of a human being.

The word "egregore" derives from the Greek word, ἐγρήγοροι (egrḗgoroi), meaning "watchers" (also transliterated "grigori"). The word appears in the Septuagint translation of the Book of Lamentations, as well as the Book of Jubilees and the Book of Enoch.

I would also like to point out the definition of devil "The Devil (Ancient Greek: διάβολος or diábolos = 'slanderer' or 'accuser'" Nothing more or less.
So in retrospect I would hate to summon something that has no power and going to stand around trying to give me a bad name or accuse me of crap I never did. If I wanted that I would have stayed with my ex. LOL

[Broomhilda]

A witch who believes in devils no. that would fall under a Christian or type of Satanist who practised old Pagan customs somehow off shoot it into something else. Witchcraft is older then the Christian concept of Devils,Satan,Demons and Jesus. I do preform rituals to honor dietys and God's
Those beings are not nor ever will be Devils. Just because a Christian through fear claims a pagan diety is a demon doesnt make it one.
I do rituals for Baphomet, Christians tend to see the drawing of Baphoment and see there Devil. I can point my finger at you all day and call you a Banana and really wish and believe you are that doesnt mean your a Banana cause I say so.
People like myself take great offence and have a knee jerk reaction to others calling us Devil worshipers. Cause through the centuries my people "Gypsies" and Witches were considerd evil and in contracts with the devil.
Now I see nothing wrong with Satanistic beliefs I have actually dated one for a while.
But just because he might wanna use my pentagram or I would burrow his Atheme doesnt make me a Satanist or him a Witch.
I think many people new agers or kids due to TV shows and alot of wrong information really dont know what a Witch is. Or what they believe and sorta start making things up as they go.
But please understand just because I say I am Jewish-Satanist-Muslim-Catholic-Mormon-Jahovas Wittness doesnt mean I am one or that I understand there beliefs. We do not use circles to conjure anything Christian.
Angels.Demons.Jesus.Prophets of the bible,Devils,Demonic sins nothing because Witchcraft is older then the Christian concept.
I hope that maybe clears some misunderstandings up.
I do believe in supporting all beliefs and religions and have great respect for those who do find spirituality in off stream religions.
Now like I said I have no problem with someone infusing a Satanic belief with Witchcraft. But its like trying to infuse Christianity with Buddism the 2 are completly different.
But if thats what your friends do I support it I am simply saying its not part of the Craft.

[Cartoon Character]

I don't know of any true Witch that believes in "devils", or the Christian notion of "demons" either.

[Seehiah]

A witch who believes in devils no. that would fall under a Christian or type of Satanist who practised old Pagan customs somehow off shoot it into something else. Witchcraft is older then the Christian concept of Devils,Satan,Demons and Jesus. I do preform rituals to honor dietys and God's
Those beings are not nor ever will be Devils. Just because a Christian through fear claims a pagan diety is a demon doesnt make it one.
I do rituals for Baphomet, Christians tend to see the drawing of Baphoment and see there Devil. I can point my finger at you all day and call you a Banana and really wish and believe you are that doesnt mean your a Banana cause I say so.
People like myself take great offence and have a knee jerk reaction to others calling us Devil worshipers. Cause through the centuries my people "Gypsies" and Witches were considerd evil and in contracts with the devil.
Now I see nothing wrong with Satanistic beliefs I have actually dated one for a while.
But just because he might wanna use my pentagram or I would burrow his Atheme doesnt make me a Satanist or him a Witch.
I think many people new agers or kids due to TV shows and alot of wrong information really dont know what a Witch is. Or what they believe and sorta start making things up as they go.
But please understand just because I say I am Jewish-Satanist-Muslim-Catholic-Mormon-Jahovas Wittness doesnt mean I am one or that I understand there beliefs. We do not use circles to conjure anything Christian.
Angels.Demons.Jesus.Prophets of the bible,Devils,Demonic sins nothing because Witchcraft is older then the Christian concept.
I hope that maybe clears some misunderstandings up.
I do believe in supporting all beliefs and religions and have great respect for those who do find spirituality in off stream religions.
Now like I said I have no problem with someone infusing a Satanic belief with Witchcraft. But its like trying to infuse Christianity with Buddism the 2 are completly different.
But if thats what your friends do I support it I am simply saying its not part of the Craft.

I think we're looking at a terminology problem here.
Can I ask what you mean by 'witch', 'witchcraft' and 'the Craft'?

I'm asking because, at the time the word 'witch' came into common use, it specifically meant someone who had made a deal with the Christian concept of the devil.
It doesn't have that meaning now, but what exactly it does mean is not always clear- it means different things to different people.

You refer to yourself as a witch, and you have nothing to do with anything relating to devils/demons, etc. That's great, cool, groovy and entirely your own business- but do you really feel equal to saying that anyone who does is NOT a witch at all?
They aren't the same type of witch that you are, but that doesn't make them 'Not a witch'.

Also, what elements of Witchcraft do you believe to be older than Christianity?

Incidentaly, 'demon' is also from a Greek word- 'daemon' (I don't have a Greek font on this computer). It simply means a spirit of some type that is somewhere between gods and humans. The personification of Death is a daemon, for instance. Angels can be thought of as daemons.

(And devils, Satan, demons and the mythology of Jesus are all themselves older than the Christian concepts of them.)

[Seehiah]

I don't know of any true Witch that believes in "devils", or the Christian notion of "demons" either.

You're heading towards the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy here....

Witches are people who practice witchcraft, and witchcraft is not in itself inherantly religious. So it is quite possible for someone to believe in the Christian concept of devils, demons, etc, and still practice witchcraft.
Satanic witches, for instance.
Although I'd agree that they're probably in a bit of a minority.

[Cartoon Character]

I suppose you got me on the Satanic Witch bit, as by definition one might say that they do believe in and work with demons and devils. But saying that Witchcraft is not inherently religious depends one one's definition of religion. Friends of mine who are traditional, natural, bloodline Witches do see it as a "religion" of sorts, as well as a way of life, code of conduct, etc. They do NOT believe in the notion of devils and demons in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic sense, nor in the concept of a Christian hell, which sort of alludes to the belief in devils and such. There's no "bad place" where all of the "bad things" live. You are correct with your interpretation of demon as coming from the Greek daimon (and latinized daemon.) Demons are guardian spirits, and each of us has one. They are not good or evil per se, which is in opposition to the standard Christian viewpoint of everything being evil unless it's been approved by the church. So, I again contend that traditional Witches do not believe in demons, devils, etc.

I would say that the core tenets and the foundation of Witchcraft itself are older than Christianity as an organized religion. Most every fundamental element of Withcraft is older than Christianity, as is the case with every tradition that works with the natural world (Daoism included), rather than believing it's just here for us to control and use as we see fit. Also, most traditions and systems that do not have such sharply defined notions of good and evil are older than Christianity.

[Seehiah]

I suppose you got me on the Satanic Witch bit, as by definition one might say that they do believe in and work with demons and devils. But saying that Witchcraft is not inherently religious depends one one's definition of religion.

True- a lot of this debate comes down to the definitions people use.


Friends of mine who are traditional, natural, bloodline Witches do see it as a "religion" of sorts, as well as a way of life, code of conduct, etc.
That's a cultural thing- valid and relevant, but not universally true. It's a religion for them. It's not a religion for me. I'm not aware of any element of witchcraft that is dependant on a particular religion, in that it won't work if the practitioner is not also an adherant of that religion.


They do NOT believe in the notion of devils and demons in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic sense, nor in the concept of a Christian hell, which sort of alludes to the belief in devils and such. There's no "bad place" where all of the "bad things" live..

Same here, across the board!


[/QUOTE] You are correct with your interpretation of demon as coming from the Greek daimon (and latinized daemon.) Demons are guardian spirits, and each of us has one..[/QUOTE]

Okay....

.[/QUOTE] They are not goodor evil per se, which is in opposition to the standard Christian viewpoint of everything being evil unless it's been approved by the church. .[/QUOTE]

And again I agree.


So, I again contend that traditional Witches do not believe in demons, devils, etc.

Good for them, but you didn't say 'traditional' witches, you said 'true' witches- indicating that any witch who believed in demons wasn't really a witch.
With a bit of a question begged as to what one might mean by believing in the Judeo-Christian concept- some witches do Goetic work. Which generally comes under the heading of Ceremonial magic, but still....

And if you're using 'true' to mean 'traditional', does that mean that you only view 'traditional' witches as being 'true' witches?


I would say that the core tenets and the foundation of Witchcraft itself are older than Christianity as an organized religion. Most every fundamental element of Withcraft is older than Christianity, as is the case with every tradition that works with the natural world (Daoism included), rather than believing it's just here for us to control and use as we see fit. Also, most traditions and systems that do not have such sharply defined notions of good and evil are older than Christianity.

Great.
What are these core tenets and what is the foundation of Witchcraft?
What are the fundamental elements of Witchcraft?
Is there anything specific to Wtichcraft, and how can we know that?

[Broomhilda]

I think we're looking at a terminology problem here.
Can I ask what you mean by 'witch', 'witchcraft' and 'the Craft'?

I'm asking because, at the time the word 'witch' came into common use, it specifically meant someone who had made a deal with the Christian concept of the devil.
It doesn't have that meaning now, but what exactly it does mean is not always clear- it means different things to different people.

You refer to yourself as a witch, and you have nothing to do with anything relating to devils/demons, etc. That's great, cool, groovy and entirely your own business- but do you really feel equal to saying that anyone who does is NOT a witch at all?
They aren't the same type of witch that you are, but that doesn't make them 'Not a witch'.

Also, what elements of Witchcraft do you believe to be older than Christianity?

Incidentaly, 'demon' is also from a Greek word- 'daemon' (I don't have a Greek font on this computer). It simply means a spirit of some type that is somewhere between gods and humans. The personification of Death is a daemon, for instance. Angels can be thought of as daemons.

(And devils, Satan, demons and the mythology of Jesus are all themselves older than the Christian concepts of them.)

I am again a hereditary traditional pictish gypsy Witch my mother was one her mother was one her mmother before her was one.
It orginally started in Egypt as an alternative type of belief system of people who were of unwealthy stature who did not want to bend a knee to the pharoah they combined natural medicinal tincture brews and remedys with divination and worship of nature with a combination of superstitions myths and lore. There were killed and the ones who escaped went down the middle eastern countries and eventually came the BFE way to Europe Before taken a stop or 2 along the way including to Romania then some eventually settled a little while in the what we know as the Celtic lands. These people sufferd at the hands of the Christian revolutions many were spread out dispersed many different ways they say to the 4 winds. Europeans labeled them "Witches" Definition.
Middle English wicche, from Old English wicca, masculine, wizard & wicce, feminine, witch; akin to Middle High German wicken to bewitch, Old English wigle divination, and perhaps to Old High German translates to Wise one. The craft Skill in doing or making something from something else or a combination of things. Magical craft Witch-craft Skill in energys making something or doing something with a intent and purpose using magical energys to change bless or anoint or hex or curse a initial outcome.
Now Witches never did believe in the devil and never did conjure the Devil or demons never ever ever ever.. Also you never stated nor did I the true meaning of Demon because we was both talking about the "Christian Concept" wasnt we?
Like I said before if someone is a "Devil Worshiping" Witch I wish them all the best.
But techincally they are not a Witch they would be more of a sorcerer with a Devilworshiping theme.
The 2 concepts and we are speaking of the Christian concept like I have stated several times now. Cancels each other out.
I am in no means saying someone cannot claim to be or want to be or actually practise both. I am stating that if they did then there a Witch 1st Or Devil worshiper 1st then a practising Witch or Devil worshiper I am not talking about Satanist Witches But the Devil from the Bible Worshipers
Googling I am afraid wont probably explain this clearly for you. Because Celts.Romanians,Unwealthy Egyptians and many other cultures did not write alot of stuff down. Instead passed knowledge in song,rhyme & stories..
I would also like to point out we was never talking about the Theology,orgins or connections or similaritys between the Christian concept and other beliefs.
Now types of "Witches" there are different types just like there different aspects and types of Christianity but there generally all from the same belief.
There Kitchen witches and Garden witches and Candle Witches and Chanting Witches,Solitary,Covens but all the different types came later because of the fact back in the day Candles was expensive and rare goods were hard to come by, So they used what they had at that time. Modern world candles can be cheap as a quarter. We need herbs we go to the market or send for em through emails. We didnt have that ability back then.
I hope this clears up your confusion on the concept of my familys beliefs.
Also thank you Ghost for your knowledge and helpful information also on the subject and your respect and knowledge of individual beliefs.

[Cartoon Character]

Perhaps I should have clarified my position. Yes, I am speaking of "traditional European" Witchcraft (although, as Broomhilda mentioned, these origins can be traced beyond the European continent) and some commonalities thereof. Regarding foundational/fundamental elements, I am referring to practices in these traditions that could be said to stem from "shamanic" principles, although that's not really the word that I want to use here. I would hold to my position that Witchcraft does in fact have elements that pertain to a particular religion, and that religion is Witchcraft itself. It is more than a religion, of course, and is a way of life. That being said, the relevance of things "working" for someone, regardless of their adherence to a particular religion implies an external system (religion as it's commonly understood) superimposed over the belief system of an ancient tradition, and the things that would "work" in that case would be spells, charms, incantations, etc. To me, this falls more in the realm of general sorcery rather than "Witchcraft" per se, and also suggests that Witchcraft is comprised primarily of the aforementioned elements. This is something that every Witch knows is not true. So-called magick is only a part of Witchcraft as a whole, just as meditation and kung fu are only aspects of overall Daoist practice. At the end of the day, one can call themselves and their practice whatever they want, and discussions along these lines are largely matters of semantics (and maybe epistemology?), which is not what I'm looking to get into here. But I do appreciate your insights and the valid points and questions you've raised in this discussion.

[Broomhilda]

Perhaps I should have clarified my position. Yes, I am speaking of "traditional European" Witchcraft (although, as Broomhilda mentioned, these origins can be traced beyond the European continent) and some commonalities thereof. Regarding foundational/fundamental elements, I am referring to practices in these traditions that could be said to stem from "shamanic" principles, although that's not really the word that I want to use here. I would hold to my position that Witchcraft does in fact have elements that pertain to a particular religion, and that religion is Witchcraft itself. It is more than a religion, of course, and is a way of life. That being said, the relevance of things "working" for someone, regardless of their adherence to a particular religion implies an external system (religion as it's commonly understood) superimposed over the belief system of an ancient tradition, and the things that would "work" in that case would be spells, charms, incantations, etc. To me, this falls more in the realm of general sorcery rather than "Witchcraft" per se, and also suggests that Witchcraft is comprised primarily of the aforementioned elements. This is something that every Witch knows is not true. So-called magick is only a part of Witchcraft as a whole, just as meditation and kung fu are only aspects of overall Daoist practice. At the end of the day, one can call themselves and their practice whatever they want, and discussions along these lines are largely matters of semantics (and maybe epistemology?), which is not what I'm looking to get into here. But I do appreciate your insights and the valid points and questions you've raised in this discussion.

couldnt say it better myself :)
Witchcraft in and of itself is a way of life and a belief system not exactly what todays society would categorize as a "religion".
I just have a knee jerk reaction to anyone saying that I worship the biblical Satan or commune with the biblical "demons" so many women have been put to death and accused of this type of thing and forced to confess this type of belief that it sorta raises an eyebrow and creates a reaction when people to this day still claim Witches are evil or worshipers or something as dark as the biblical christian devils and demonics.

[Gemnus32]

I can't imagine what, 'witchcraft,' might mean if someone didn't believe in some sort of spirit or spirits. However, there is also the, 'craft,' part of witchcraft, which is simply practical.

[Cartoon Character]

Point taken.

[Seehiah]

I am again a hereditary traditional pictish gypsy Witch my mother was one her mother was one her mmother before her was one.
It orginally started in Egypt as an alternative type of belief system of people who were of unwealthy stature who did not want to bend a knee to the pharoah they combined natural medicinal tincture brews and remedys with divination and worship of nature with a combination of superstitions myths and lore. There were killed and the ones who escaped went down the middle eastern countries and eventually came the BFE way to Europe Before taken a stop or 2 along the way including to Romania then some eventually settled a little while in the what we know as the Celtic lands. These people sufferd at the hands of the Christian revolutions many were spread out dispersed many different ways they say to the 4 winds. Europeans labeled them "Witches" Definition.
Middle English wicche, from Old English wicca, masculine, wizard & wicce, feminine, witch; akin to Middle High German wicken to bewitch, Old English wigle divination, and perhaps to Old High German translates to Wise one. The craft Skill in doing or making something from something else or a combination of things. Magical craft Witch-craft Skill in energys making something or doing something with a intent and purpose using magical energys to change bless or anoint or hex or curse a initial outcome.
Now Witches never did believe in the devil and never did conjure the Devil or demons never ever ever ever.. Also you never stated nor did I the true meaning of Demon because we was both talking about the "Christian Concept" wasnt we?
Like I said before if someone is a "Devil Worshiping" Witch I wish them all the best.
But techincally they are not a Witch they would be more of a sorcerer with a Devilworshiping theme.
The 2 concepts and we are speaking of the Christian concept like I have stated several times now. Cancels each other out.
I am in no means saying someone cannot claim to be or want to be or actually practise both. I am stating that if they did then there a Witch 1st Or Devil worshiper 1st then a practising Witch or Devil worshiper I am not talking about Satanist Witches But the Devil from the Bible Worshipers
Googling I am afraid wont probably explain this clearly for you. Because Celts.Romanians,Unwealthy Egyptians and many other cultures did not write alot of stuff down. Instead passed knowledge in song,rhyme & stories..
I would also like to point out we was never talking about the Theology,orgins or connections or similaritys between the Christian concept and other beliefs.
Now types of "Witches" there are different types just like there different aspects and types of Christianity but there generally all from the same belief.
There Kitchen witches and Garden witches and Candle Witches and Chanting Witches,Solitary,Covens but all the different types came later because of the fact back in the day Candles was expensive and rare goods were hard to come by, So they used what they had at that time. Modern world candles can be cheap as a quarter. We need herbs we go to the market or send for em through emails. We didnt have that ability back then.
I hope this clears up your confusion on the concept of my familys beliefs.
Also thank you Ghost for your knowledge and helpful information also on the subject and your respect and knowledge of individual beliefs.

Well, you've... certainly covered all the bases there....

And relax- I don't think anyone's calling you a devil-worshipper! Working with something is not the same as worshipping it.

But we are indeed going off-topic- anyone want to wander over to the Witchcraft boards to continue? I'm particularly interested in your ideas about these heretical Egyptians....

[Broomhilda]

so sorry Iza you are correct.
Witches do not use "Devil traps" :)

[devakxes]

I could rather use a trap to catch a couple possums.

[Adromaedis]

Just to add in my thoughts an info based on my personal experience....

Demons (properly spelled DAEMON) is a word made up by a religion that believes anything that isn't of their god, in their eyes it is a demon; a monster that will trick you an try it's absolute best to steal your soul, whatever the means or it's intentions, the end result is the damnation or corruption of your spirit.

In truth, the word is just their way of saying "I judge this to be evil because I think this being is ugly". To quote a character from Legacy of Kain SoulReaver 2, "They fear what they do not understand, and they despise what they fear" (Janos Audron, Reaver Guardian, The last of the Ancient Vampires). So, whatever the word is, be it "Devil" or "Demon", it is not what they are referred to as.

All beings/entities that exist on planes/realms/dimensions are simply in a much higher state of self awakening, to call them "Demons" or "Devils" is no more different than walking up to Buddha an calling him a "lard infested pig with brains no greater than that of a slug". All beings deserve respect, regardless of who or what they are. You show them respect an they shall return in kind. And yes, the same applies even for spirits that are causing some hell in your life.

[Cartoon Character]

Daemon is the latinization of the original Greek "daimon", which basically means full of wisdom and was a guardian spirit of sorts. I agree that formalized religion and its "demon" are missing the mark in their definition. But, I suppose it's become a good catch-all phrase for things we find unfavorable and that which goes against Judeo-Christian concepts of God and righteousness.

And personally, I think the Buddha would probably be fine with your example of a derogatory description of him. We are supposed to kill him if we meet him on the road, after all. :)

[noxul]

I didn't see if someone answered your question, but heres a link with the stuff they use on the show and where they got it from. http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Devil%27s_trap_%28symbol%29

[Jackal]

Jason Millers book on Magickal defence has a trap for lower entities and negative stuff.
It also has a blessing devoted to the goddess Hekate, to activate it.