Do Left Hand Path and Right Hand Path occultists share the same goals?

[justinkl75]

Ive noticed that their are branches of Luciferianism like Gnostic Luciferianism, but then there is just plain Gnosticism as well. And then Satanists or Luciferians tend to practice the same stuff as the Right Hand Path occultists. Do these two groups LHP and RHP have the same goals, or do they have opposite goals but use the same methods of magical evocation and ritual because these methods are the ones that work best, whether its for light or dark.

[Gemnus32]

My general byline is that the RHP seeks, 'union,' while the LHP seeks, 'freedom.' Still, the definition of the two terms is sort of up for grabs - and there are other definitions that even make sense.

[Cartoon Character]

Yes, they do. At least as much as any two people can share the same goals.

[zero]

it all depends on how you define things mostly one has to look at the ethics, or what are you willing to do to get to your goals. In my opinion that is the difference.

[EtuMalku]

No, they do not.

The RHP seeks to absolve into the objective universe, to atone with what they refer to as Deity/God, to harmonize with the Creation.

The LHP seeks to Become a god and to separate from this 'creation', to Become a Creator.

Luciferianism, as well as Satanism is a philosophy that assists in this LHP, they are NOT the Way to this Path's Goal, only Personal Work and dedication/focus will accomplish this.

[Cartoon Character]

No, they do not.

The RHP seeks to absolve into the objective universe, to atone with what they refer to as Deity/God, to harmonize with the Creation.

The LHP seeks to Become a god and to separate from this 'creation', to Become a Creator.

Luciferianism, as well as Satanism is a philosophy that assists in this LHP, they are NOT the Way to this Path's Goal, only Personal Work and dedication/focus will accomplish this.

Thank you for clarifying that, EtuMalku. We seek to become Immortals (gods) and creators, but also return back to the infinite Void of Wuji, which is the non-manifested source of all power, as well as the subjective and objective universes.

[Cartoon Character]

Any path one pursues is ultimately for selfish gains, and this is a good thing. Selfish doesn't necessarily imply greed or maliciousness towards others, but can turn into these things if left unchecked. The problem I see here is essentially a human one, insofar as we need to compartmentalize and label things, even when we say that we do not. One person's heaven is another person's hell, so to speak, and we therefore have many different paths available to us. I would, however, say the in the end, LHP and RHP practitioners DO in fact share the same goals in that they each pursue paths that they feel will lead them to where they want to be in terms of personal evolution and Being. It's just that the ideas about what the realized goal actually is and the methods for achieving such are sometimes quite different. But we all basically have the same goals. We want what we want, whatever it may be.

[KashakuTatsu]

I would, however, say the in the end, LHP and RHP practitioners DO in fact share the same goals in that they each pursue paths that they feel will lead them to where they want to be in terms of personal evolution and Being. It's just that the ideas about what the realized goal actually is and the methods for achieving such are sometimes quite different. But we all basically have the same goals. We want what we want, whatever it may be.

I was beginning to get hives from the idea of similar goals till you posted that ghost. A similar goal being that "we strive for what we want" is much easier to swallow than lumping everyone in the category of wanting to help others in one way or another kind of mentality.

[Cartoon Character]

Cool. I think that's really what it all boils down to. We want what we want, and we have different ideas about how to get what we want. So, we do different things to achieve that end. At their core, the goals are the same. Pure altruism (which I don't believe truly exists), for example, is not what one is really striving for if they act altruistically. Altruism is a tool for getting that person to where they want to be in accordance with their developmental model. In other words, by being altruistic, that person believes they will ultimately get what they want. KashakuTatsu, I'm glad to hear that I helped keep you out of the Benadryl. Why am I happy that you're not covered in hives? For my own personal evolution, of course! :)

[EtuMalku]

Well that is not quite true. yes the RHP thinks of others, but the CM of the RHP strives to be a God, and live in the astral without a body, is their goal. the theosophist also seeks to be a God without a body but they are thinking on the line of helping man kind. also i may add a theosophist is the creator along with others who have created the world by thought form. some say alchemist are LHP because they also strive to be a God for their own glory, but there is a part of RHP in them as they seek to develop the philosopher's stone to help mankind. i think there is a bit of RHP and LHP in all magickians, occultists, etc.

I'm sorry, what is CM?
Theosophy is not a LHP and does not seek to separate from the objective universe in order to Become godlike. It seeks to atone with the objective universe.

Please point out where it does to me?

[Cartoon Character]

I believe CM stands for ceremonial magickian.

[Aradia]

GREAT explaination, Iza. :) You REALLY know your stuff.

[EtuMalku]

Ceremonial Magickian, and having been a theosophist, and member for many years, i believe i just said a theosophist though striving to become a full fledged Buddha or Bodhisattva etc. etc, will take one of two paths offered, one to help mankind or a second to help himself. it doesn't make him a bad person, just he or she is not ready to give all. a theosophists goal is to become a full God and live without a body in the astral but they have two choices one to serve mankind and the other to serve themselves. that second one can be considered a left hand path choice. a Ceremonial Magickian goal is also to strive to become a full blown God through many ways of practice. i will say it again there is LHP and RHP in everyone, unless a person is so fucked up he can never know the difference between right or wrong, morals or ethics, good or bad, he just is so consumed by mental instability he see no colors not love no emotions, then he isn't LHP he is just messed up. now i hope this clarifies it a bit, hopefully you will understand, but if not get in touch with me and i will explain it more fully. what people fail to understand is theosophy is not a religion, and our members are atheists, satanists, christians, Ceremonial magickians, alchemist. this is what confuses people who just touch the surface and are not accepted in the esoteric teachings, for most it is just exoteric, and they only touch the surface. few are allowed to be privy to the secret school. hence not being to understand thosophy and the many facets and choices a chela has to make.
Thank you for clarifying!

wisdom that transcends the sense-perceptible world, that reveals to us both our essential nature and our destiny, is called theosophy, or "divine wisdom"
- from Rudolph Steiner

As a former member of the Temple of Set and a practicing Luciferian right now, I believe there is more to the LHP than 'Self-Serving' as you put it.

The LHP is the principle of Isolate Intelligence, it is the manifested desire to be an independent participant in your subjective universe, whereas the RHP is the annihilation of the Self and the union of the Will with the objective universe a.k.a Judeo-Christian idea of god.

The LHP is psychecentric, an eternal separation of the individual intelligence from the objective universe is sought by the LHP.

[KashakuTatsu]

KashakuTatsu, I'm glad to hear that I helped keep you out of the Benadryl. Why am I happy that you're not covered in hives? For my own personal evolution, of course! :)

It also self-saves from overly violent languaged responses XD Can't always hold it down, but do ok most days... a benadryl high (yes I've gone full psychotic episode from that crap before from extended use *shudders at memories of hiding in the closet*) breaks all filter attempts XD

[devakxes]

''Should you strip the soul naked, you would reveal a tower of babel''
Yes, all motivation is selfish. Unless you have lost your Reason.

I do not agree that the left and right hand paths have the same goal. You can use the methods, but the goal must be forever kept in mind. Even Crowley adhered to this principle when he went to brothels - he imagined dissolving into the body of Nuit (The All).

If I am correct, the goal of theosophy is to collect Wisdom - not to become godlike or even to unite with a god. They make a great focus on achieving enlightenment and focusing on trying to not let their passions overtake them because the passions connect us with the flesh, and thus by connecting with the flesh we die. Or so they believe. Excessive focus on the apollonian side of things.

It is to bad that most shamanic religions glorified the body as a temple of the spirit (whether it was our own spirit or the spirit of the All). The second step was making one's astral body capable of surviving beyond death - by making ourselves conscious so that when we enter this new state of being we do not just sleep and let time takes it toll on us and make us decay.

The Left Hand Path seeks immortality of the Self, isolate consciousness.
The Right Hand Path seeks union with the All or Divine for the sake of harmony and happiness - placing the cosmic order and harmony above themselves.

Even Carl Jung spoke about how the Libido or psychic energy of people is focused either inwardly or outwardly. Those people who seek outwardly are more seeking the right hand path or the well trodden path. Those who seek inwardly seek the unknown path that veers to the left. But in the end, the Self must devour All.

[EtuMalku]

Yes, Thelemites stop at the bottom of the Upper Supernal of the Tree of Life, this is where they veer Right and those that veer Left are referred to as The Black Brotherhood.

RHP: Thy Will Be Done
LHP: My Will Be Done