Qlippoth

[Nix]

Since I am going to start work with the qlippoth soon(3-4 months) I want to know if anyone has pathworked the qlippoth and their experiences(cautionary tales) with it.Any tips and info would be appreciated.

[EtuMalku]

Been studying the Qliphoth for years, what would you like to know?
I would practice extreme caution when working with these Veils of Negative Existence.
What sort of work will you be doing with them?

[Lady Dunsany]

I have heard of the Qlippoth, it is the tree of death is it not, and it is working with the shells and demons. I work with the tree of life. I guess the best advice is protect yourself expect nothing and expect everything.

[Nix]

Well can i work with the tree of life and the tree of death simultaenously?Tipareth is where knowledge and conversation of holy guardian angel takes place.Is there an equivalent demon residing in the Tagirion?

[EtuMalku]

Yes, Belphegor, Hemethterith, Lafoursiax, Saksaksalim, A'ano'nin and Niantiel

Be careful with this stuff my friend

[Lady Dunsany]

Listen to EtuMalku as he is very wise.

[Nix]

Would you advise me to go the Dragon rogue way or the KennyG (Kenneth Grant) way?

[EtuMalku]

Nix, I cannot recommend a better way to go than with Mr. Karlsson of the Dragon Rouge (Ordo Draconis et Atri Adamantis)
And I'm not kidding when I say "be careful'

[Nix]

Now you are really scaring me.:eek:.But forewarned is forearmed thanks.Also what is the end result of pathworking the qlippoth?What is Universe B?

[EtuMalku]

Now you are really scaring me.:eek:.But forewarned is forearmed thanks.Also what is the end result of pathworking the qlippoth?What is Universe B?

The end result will be Spiritual rebirth

Grant has stated that Daath lies in the midst of the Abyss, the zone that separates normal human consciousness from the "supernal triad" or the godhead. Daath, in the Abyss, acts as a gateway to other dimensions or "Universe B" as Grant calls it, (as opposed to our "side" known as "Universe A") and the Tunnels of Set where the evil Qliphoth reside.

[Nix]

Wait does spiritual rebirth mean reincarnation?I was of the opinion that once the Thaumiel is reached the person goes outside of creation and the cosmos.Some even say godhood waits at the end.

[redhand]

There is a similarity here to the Underworld tradition except we don't consider it evil. Evil is just a label. Frequently Kabbalistic writings suggest that evil is simply the manifestation of the Sephirah Geburah (Severity) taken too far and separated from its proper balancing power of Chesed. The sense of the Qlippoth being a natural part of existence reaches its zenith in the Zoharic comment that everything is a "shell" or "husk" when seen from a higher level of existence, and the kernel in the shell when seen from a lower one.

I would recommend that you study the names of the Twelve Princes and Tribes of the Qlippoth well and, the Averse Sephiroth, contained in the Seven Palaces, and these Sephiroth have their place from behind the holiness of the World of Assiah. Other than that just take your time while working through this area.

[Nix]

I would recommend that you study the names of the Twelve Princes and Tribes of the Qlippoth well and, the Averse Sephiroth, contained in the Seven Palaces, and these Sephiroth have their place from behind the holiness of the World of Assiah. Other than that just take your time while working through this area.
Thanks I never heard of these before will google and read them tommorow

[rhoNIN]

I'll strongly second that 'be careful' suggestion.

The Qliphoth are, by their very nature, dark, scary, messed up, WRONG places, from most modes of perception. Of course, one of the strongest (IMHO) reasons for experimenting with them in the first place is to better understand and expand one's perceptions.

A strong foundation in grounding oneself and centering cannot be over-valued.

Stay calm, be patient, and do not allow yourself to hurry.

Always, always, always keep in mind that it is okay to back off for a while and reset emotionally.

[Ashnook]

Important to note is that in the IAO formulae, rebirth happens only after death. So yes in a way the end result of such workings is spiritual rebirth however the cost can be very high. Just something to keep in mind.

[EtuMalku]

Yes, there would be physical death involved.
Hey . . . small price to pay for becoming a God LOL

[Nix]

Important to note is that in the IAO formulae, rebirth happens only after death. So yes in a way the end result of such workings is spiritual rebirth however the cost can be very high. Just something to keep in mind.
Hello Ashnook Isn't the IAO formulae not applicable to the new aeon according to Crowley.I think things work differently in this aeon I am not sure about this myself.

Yes, there would be physical death involved.
Hey . . . small price to pay for becoming a God LOL
Now I know why its called the tree of death :eek:.EtuMalku have you worked with the qlippoth?

[EtuMalku]

Only in a musical setting . . . otherwise, I don't mess with that stuff

[Lady Dunsany]

You are very wise. I once looked at the subject and decided there had to be a better way to be reborn a God. It was enough just to look at the information, and I decided twas not for me.

[Ashnook]

I was speaking metaphorically. Often for the magus the birth, death, and rebirth cycle is an emotional as well as a spiritual cycle. Any pathwork will bring a person through something similar to that. Walking the qlippoth will bring a person much hell. The question is whether or not a person is ready for that. For those who work the tree of life non-hermetically, that is to say those who work it from the strict judaic stand point, there is an age requirment for walking the qlippoth. Generally speaking the qlippoth is walked after many years of working with the tree of life. It is an exceedingly dangerous undertaking and if a person has not been initiated into a system completly I would not recommend they do it.

Nix, I do not know the answer the your question. If indeed we live in a new aeon and the IAO formulae is null, and I do not think that is the case but if so, I will go out on a limb and say that still the qlippoth working will bring the magus to a place emotionally and spiritually that they may not want to be.

I am not one who puts much stock in "oooh that is too dangerous so do not do it." On the contrary I think experimentation is good. However in this discussion I will be the voice in the background that says "if you want to do it, good luck. Be careful though, its going to be a bumpy ride." :cool:

The idea is that the qlippoth represents imbalance. If a person feels they have developed their Will enough to sustain prolonged periods of that then go for it. Otherwise it could be prudent to put such endevours in a basket and set them aside for a time. There is an old saying that goes something like this "magick may make you a God, but must likely it will just make you insane." The promise of such undertakings is Godhead, at least that is the promise to many. Remember though Gilgamesh's quest for immortality, or Godhead. It was wrought with quite a bit of destruction and personal turmoil for him.

-Ashnook

[Nix]

Ashnook that's one good reply.I have to put my thinking cap on again and think this qlippoth thing through.

[Lady Dunsany]

I have a question. I noticed that Lilith is listed. I always thought she was misunderstood, and was not considered evil. Is she a different entity as she is listed as the Queen of the Night.

[EtuMalku]

Lilith is not evil, she is strong and proud. She signifies the Goddess cults, she would not lie beneath Adam (his first wife and his equal) thus God made Eve.
Another attempt by the Abrahamic religions to squelch any Pagan Goddess religions.

[Lady Dunsany]

I thought so. Thank You EtuMalku.

[Ashnook]

Lilith is not evil, she is strong and proud. She signifies the Goddess cults, she would not lie beneath Adam (his first wife and his equal) thus God made Eve.
Another attempt by the Abrahamic religions to squelch any Pagan Goddess religions.

Whether or not the hebrew lilith is an evil entity is a question whose answer depends upon one's point of view and interpretation of the early hebrew texts concerning her, however the entity or class of entities that Lilith comes from is quite negative in nature. Lilith is the hebrew pronunciation of the mesopotamian demon Lilitu, or group of demons. I say group because often in mesopotamian myth the name of a demon generally denotes a particular demon and all demons in that same category. We might think of this as a group of demons called the lilitu whose ruler is Lilitu. Lilitu, often associated with Lamashtu and indeed may be one in the same, was said to rob women of their unborn children, cause women to become barren, cause sickness in men, and last but not least destory newborns. Simon's Necronomicon suggests that she demanded 100s of sacrifices of new borns of ancient cities. Though we should not necessarily take Simon's work as historical fact, Simon's work presents to us a very valid point conerncing Lilitu...Not an entity we may want to spend a great deal of time with on a friday night at the bar.

In defense of the Lamashtu or Lilitu the ancients were known to employ depictions and statues of the winged demon Pazuzu. Pazuzu is in the babylonian tradition the prince of all demons and and a very dubious character. This causes us to wonder, how horrible did the ancients view Lilitu to be that they decide to turn to the prince of all demons to shield them against her? There is an ancient tablet which if you google "pazuzu lilitu" or "pazuzu lamashtu" you will come across which depicts a group of priests calling upon pazuzu to drive her from a sick man. The bottom of the tablet shows Pazuzu driving her back into the underworld.

I am well aware of the modernist neo-pagan and quasi femenist view that Lilith represents the architypical strong woman. I make this reply not to be argumentative but rather to simply paint an alternate picture. I know there are many modern occultists who view Lilith as being a deity very close to them and I in no way mean to demean that. I personally feel there are far better examples in mythology of strong and rebellious female deities who refused to submit to men and who indeed have much more reputable backgrounds than Lilith, however that is only my personal opinion and I project that on no one.

We have on the one hand the hebrew notion of her representing woman rebelling against male oppression. On the other hand we have the mesopotamian view, which is not only the far older but also the original view, of her as a demon of genocide toward pregnant women and new born babies. We must note the fact that the mesopotamian tradition outdates the hebrew by 1000+ years. We must also take note of the fact that it is no secret that many hewbrew myths were based in part upon older mesopotamian myths in bastardized form. There is a reason why the hebrew Lilith is considered part of the Qlippoth and I submit that it had nothing to do with her not wanting to be on bottom.

-Ashnook