Lesser Key of Solomon

[Murmur]

Is this a good and reliable place to start my studies in demonology.

I had a dream a few nights before I joined here that involved some bird that fancied itself a demon. He called himself Murmur (hence the name) and the next day when I looked it up, sure enough, Murmur is a Great Duke of Hell and is often seen as a vulture.

Anyway, I did a very small amount of digging and found The Lesser Key of Solomon supposedly regarding 72 demons.

First of all, is this even obtainable, and second of all, should I consider purchasing it?

[Deffy]

Purchasing it???

There are several websites where you can download it for free, here is one:

Grimoires Library & E-Books (http://www.hermetics.org/library/Library_Grimoires.html)

http://www.hermetic.com/browe-archive/classics.htm <- This page also gives a description of each book.

These books are so old they are well in the public domain and freely available to anyone. Particular translations/commentaries may be purchased, but the original texts are out there.

[Harlock]

i would i have studied demonology for awhile and am downloading it now i usually used a site but it was closed down awhile ago. it is important to know the demons that solomon used and then sealed in an urn, and later released thanks to the Babylonians (short synapsis of story) btw thank you deffy this is a rather interesting site

last thing i got to say is do not call on any demons that are in there unless you really know what you are doing, your very soul will be at stake

[Lady Dunsany]

i would i have studied demonology for awhile and am downloading it now i usually used a site but it was closed down awhile ago. it is important to know the demons that solomon used and then sealed in an urn, and later released thanks to the Babylonians (short synapsis of story) btw thank you deffy this is a rather interesting site

last thing i got to say is do not call on any demons that are in there unless you really know what you are doing, your very soul will be at stake

Harlock is right. Your soul now and forever, it is worse after death as you are bound to the demon in life and afterwards. Always know what you are getting into. Good luck.

[bakeneko]

last thing i got to say is do not call on any demons that are in there unless you really know what you are doing, your very soul will be at stake

I would say this can happen to you with any entity. So, do not make pacts and call upon more than one entity.

[Kouya]

Hmm... Murmur... oh well, at the very least the Goetia's 72 spirits that be, demon or not, the facade thing is always funny.

[bakeneko]

Facade is a funny thing... especially when one sees different descriptions of the same hierarchy.
I have something similar to the "brazen vessel" to store the spirit seals that I use. Good thing, one should just never mix different hierarchies as the spirits do not like this (and is is a too different mix of energies sometimes).

[Lady Dunsany]

I would say this can happen to you with any entity. So, do not make pacts and call upon more than one entity.

Ah but not all entities ask for your soul to grant your bidding. This is where you are mistaken.
Certain ones ask for your soul when you die and hold on to it until they are ready to release it which could be years of pure torment. This is the bargain you make. The Arch Angels do not ask for that as many others, so let us get this straight now before someone who does not know what they are doing makes a fatal mistake.

[bakeneko]

Ah but not all entities ask for your soul to grant your bidding. This is where you are mistaken.


With all respect: I did not mention this. I hinted at indirect pacts, which do not involve a "negotiation" or any asking.

So therefore: WARNING, YOU ENTER MY BELIEF SYSTEM!

Basically one could end as a servant of a archangel if you concentrate on *only* this entity and get drawn into its sphere - something that one would not even feel as torture at this point (guess what "heaven" is). It is something from my belief system, which can be right or wrong. I don't feel like arguing about this.

[Lady Dunsany]

I had no idea you looked at it as an argument? I am afraid you are not understanding my point. When one is new to magick this is not the place to start. While I respect your beliefs and opinion I was simply stating that when you work with certain demons you do have to make a bargain in order to harness their power and that bargain is the forfeit of your soul. It is not my part to judge it is my part to give fair warning and the pitfalls that can occur. I am sorry but I have worked with demons and all forms of entities and the bargain is not the same between the Angels and others and I was speaking of certain demons. It is not my place to tell you what is right or wrong for you but it is all our responsibility as occultists to warn beginners of the problems that could happen. Otherwise it becomes arrogance in all it's form and ego. I have been doing this long enough to know you do not send anyone into the lions den without proper equipment or a mentor to protect and guide them.

[bakeneko]

Well, I only put the warning a bit further then, I think.

As for my experience, I only worked any further with the genii of the earth girdling zone. And while they are described as positive by Quintscher and Bardon, they come of as demon servants in Abramelin - basically it is the kind of the two sided sword I tried to mention.
As a example: One could tap into the energy field of Melamoth and gain self-confidence and power (inner and outer) , but when this is the only entity one has contact with, it is easy to lose the balance and turn into a power-freak. So both accounts are true...

But as the Goetic spirits are clearly classified as "evil" from the beginning, should this not be a warning already?

[SWM]

I would get the key of solomon first, seeing as it came first. The lesser key would be confusing if you didn't read the greater key first. The circles and methods that you use to summon the daemons are not very respectful, and could cause backlash. If you jump into the lesser key without the understanding of the greater key, you will multiply your misfortune. Good luck.

[Harlock]

Well, I only put the warning a bit further then, I think.

As for my experience, I only worked any further with the genii of the earth girdling zone. And while they are described as positive by Quintscher and Bardon, they come of as demon servants in Abramelin - basically it is the kind of the two sided sword I tried to mention.
As a example: One could tap into the energy field of Melamoth and gain self-confidence and power (inner and outer) , but when this is the only entity one has contact with, it is easy to lose the balance and turn into a power-freak. So both accounts are true...

But as the Goetic spirits are clearly classified as "evil" from the beginning, should this not be a warning already?

some people have a theory that every spirit wont harm you, because your the one that summoned it, so i give the warning out to everyone just so they know and at least i can say to the one individual that does get hurt "i told you so, glad to see your still kicking"

[bakeneko]

some people have a theory that every spirit wont harm you, because your the one that summoned it

Interesting idea, but to me it is similar to: If you invite a serial killer to your home, you won't get hurt, because you did *invite* him.
So for me it is still all about who you invite...or summon.

[Harlock]

Interesting idea, but to me it is similar to: If you invite a serial killer to your home, you won't get hurt, because you did *invite* him.
So for me it is still all about who you invite...or summon.

summon is a old word for invite, and as for the serial killer comment no offence but tell that to the manson family victims and laci peterson its the happy idea that everyone has, and thank god it doesnt happen all the time but it happens

[bakeneko]

Additionally...what exactly is "summon" in such a context?
Mostly trying to force (!) some being into a place which it will simply hate and then demanding her/him/it to do stuff he/she/it did not want do it the first place (even though this being could do it). And then there is not even a thank you. No wonder there are quite a few pissed off entities around.

[Deffy]

The way I see it is this, Summoners are like Telemarketers. We've all gotten calls at dinner time or late at night from a Telemarketer trying to sell us car warrenties, AOL Internet service, or a vacuum. How did you feel when you got that call... angry, outraged, wanting to throttle whatever was on the other end of the line...

Now imagine a novice telemarketer... stammering, studdering through his sales pitch meekly or poorly mispronouncing your name and acting all pushy. Not only that but they'd call at 2am because they don't understand the concept of time zones. Now how would you feel... not only that you can't hang up the phone, they have all the power in that regard. You'd jump in your car and mow the person down.

[dannerz]

If Murmur has visited you in the dream then there is ofcourse a reason for this, or there could be many reasons. You could possably ask him/it why, but I suggest you pray about it allot until you are given clear and accurate guidance. Many entities are aware of what is happening right now, there is a wide variety of exploitive and benevolent personalities out there. The prayers would be to try to reach the highest benificial advisory figure.

[bakeneko]

better get familiar with the language of the laws that govern them.

Speaking of "laws"... some of the seals look very similar to voudun vedes... and some characteristics are similar too, I heard. Like Erzulie and Gomory...

[Harlock]

Additionally...what exactly is "summon" in such a context?
Mostly trying to force (!) some being into a place which it will simply hate and then demanding her/him/it to do stuff he/she/it did not want do it the first place (even though this being could do it). And then there is not even a thank you. No wonder there are quite a few pissed off entities around.

summoners come with a bad preconception when you "call" upon a spirit is it not the same as summoning? you are missing the original definition of the term, compared to the one that has been given lately threw all sorts of media. its a preconcept people have.

"a call issued for the meeting of an assembly or parliament." definition according to dictionary.com

though i do see your point, just remember though words and their definitions change over time invoking, calling, summoning different words but same original meeting just used by different sects of beliefs.

[Murmur]

Thanks for your input, everyone.

I should, however, make it clear that I was not planning on trying to summon anything. I was merely wondering, if you look at my original post, if the Lesser Key was a good place to start researching demonology.

I in no way, shape, or form intended to try and summon a powerful demon in my beginning months -- that would be extremely foolish.

[Lady Dunsany]

NO. Start simple and start small.

[Murmur]

Thanks for your advice, Lady D.

I'll let those demons be for a couple of years :)

[Lady Dunsany]

Smart move.

[Harlock]

Thanks for your input, everyone.

I should, however, make it clear that I was not planning on trying to summon anything. I was merely wondering, if you look at my original post, if the Lesser Key was a good place to start researching demonology.

I in no way, shape, or form intended to try and summon a powerful demon in my beginning months -- that would be extremely foolish.

i know what you were getting at, and like i said its a great article, i just got caught up in a linguistic discussion/debate and had alot of fun with it,

[Jastiv]

My understanding is at some point in your journey it may become nesessary to summon a demon. I would have to say that the ordeal leading up to this was far more terrifying in itself than anything the demon did.