goetic question:

[dannerz]

is there a goetic spirit that looks sortof like a deer or elk, but with wings and hands? if so what is its name and personality?

[redhand]

I agree it may be Furfur. It's likely that the name is a corruption of 'Furcifer' the Latin word for scoundrel. Not one of the first ones I would recommend you working with.

[Kouya]

The pattern with Goetia based entities is mostly of that individual calling to them is 'stable' or 'able'... in a simple way of speaking, for various reasons and circumstances, those not so in that area either do get no results at all, or distortions that may lead to the 'horrible tales' that come to be.

Although the Goetia spirits do play into facades often...

[dannerz]

Furfur (other spelling: Furtur) is a powerful Great Earl of Hell, being the ruler of twenty-nine legions of demons. He is a liar unless compelled to enter a magic triangle where he gives true answers to every question, speaking with a rough voice. Furfur causes love between a man and a woman, creates storms, tempests, thunder, lightning, and blasts, and teaches on secret and divine things.

He is depicted as a hart or winged hart, and also as an angel. To some authors he changes from hart into angel when compelled to enter the magic triangle.

There is a picture in the Dictionnaire Infernal that looks exactly like what you describe. Tons of fun provided the proper precautions are taken. Wearing his seal upon you definately increases one's sex appeal.Just keep in mind the Goetic spirits are all evil by definition. You have to be very careful with your wording and intents.

http://www.thelemapedia.org/images/c/c9/Furfur.jpg

Ok I think that was probably him.

@redhand : I got the impression that he is not exactly a spirit that you could "work with" in the first place, ae not the most ideally sociable type of being. So don't worry about me, I wont be getting into that.

Main reasons why I asked was firstly I felt drawn to some kind of entity like that, almost like I felt a slight presence of it inside my mind, and after trying to exchange a few words with it, it seemed to talk about how vulnerable and pathetic I was, in a disturbing unkind way.

Second reason is that one of the girls that I knew, had a certain attraction to 'demons', and her astral-self had a figure similar to that, with elk's horns but then a humanish body and wings.

Thanks for advice everyone.

[redhand]

Yes, he can be a trickster, though there are things when you have advanced enough that you can find useful. One that I really like working with myself is Vassago.--The Third Spirit is a Mighty Prince, being of the same nature as Agares. This Spirit is of a Good Nature, and his office is to declare things Past and to Come, really good for divination and such, and to discover all things Hidden or Lost. And he governs 26 Legions of Spirits. But again it is wise to build a firm foundation before attempting this with any of them.

[Ari]

Furfur also literally means dandruff flakes in Latin. It may be an allusion to the scoundrel actions being purifying or cleansing in some ways. The negative effects of Furfur can be similar to qlippoth shells, or discards of the cleansing process.

The spirit will not only challenge, but strongly resist...until you put it in human form, meaning humanize its essence for yourself, as I see it at least.

Otherwise it is a spirit of passion, including weather and human passions, probably related to ancient storm/fertility deities. The last thing Furfur will do is take orders, unless you master its challenges and then it won't be taking orders but an affinity with the vibration that makes it work.

[Lady Dunsany]

Yes, he can be a trickster, though there are things when you have advanced enough that you can find useful. One that I really like working with myself is Vassago.--The Third Spirit is a Mighty Prince, being of the same nature as Agares. This Spirit is of a Good Nature, and his office is to declare things Past and to Come, really good for divination and such, and to discover all things Hidden or Lost. And he governs 26 Legions of Spirits. But again it is wise to build a firm foundation before attempting this with any of them.

How do you go about building a firm foundation. I am curious. I have worked with demons in the past but not the Goetia they are not my cup of tea. To someone new to anything what would be your first suggestion to them?

[bakeneko]

Imperial Arts (http://imperialarts.livejournal.com/)
There his name is translated as "butterfly"... from a Hebrew root I guess. Blog includes evocation reports too - for the ones interested in reading such stuff ;)

[redhand]

I agree with Ari on this, this is one where the old brow beating technique definitely wont work!LOL

A firm foundation Lady D, basically means not only doing prep work but, coming to know ones true self (or nature). Learn basics also like good banishing and such and, have a good understanding of how these type of rituals work.

Interesting link Bakeneko.

[Lady Dunsany]

Thank You redhand.

[redhand]

No problem!

[Enki]

Actually, Furfur is a female, and looks nothing like the descriptions I've read about her on the Internet. She's not a "demon", trust me — she's an extraterrestrial being, who works with many others alongside Enki to help man and womankind advance spiritually and physically, and she's done so for many years now. Though we call her Furfur, it's most probably not even her real name, so, there's no need to demand her presence, nor cast circles, nor give her "license to depart". These are abusive ways to contact her and will no doubt annoy or even upset her. The notion that you can imprison such an advanced being within a circle seems quite ludicrous to me, considering humanity's current level of evolvement. Sounds more like a biblical tale. All you need to do is ask for her to come to you, and just speak to her like you would a friend. She'll hear you alright, and if you're ready for the energy her aura projects, you're genuine in intent, and she isn't busy, she'll come to you in some form or another. All I use is a candle and some incense, and that's for her; not for me. I don't need no circle to protect me.

[Ari]

A firm foundation Lady D, basically means not only doing prep work but, coming to know ones true self (or nature). Learn basics also like good banishing and such and, have a good understanding of how these type of rituals work.

It's a good question. The problem with grimoirs is that they are really notebooks where the foundation is not given but implied. They leave alot unexplained, and just picking one up and rolling up your sleeves is like trying to master calculus without algebra, only here the "numbers" can have more impact.

All that Liam mentioned is part the foundation, and I think a bare minimum since contacting any entity is an experience that goes beyond the ordinary and most people are simply not prepared for it.

As the previous post implies, trying to pin these entities down can be like trying to grasp water in your fist. You have all kinds of impressions among people making or attempting contact regarding issues of "gender", nature and origin.

I've gotten into more than one heated debate on another forum about the topic, and decided the point is moot. The grimoir provides guidelines, and for me the language is symbolic, which makes sense given grimoirs are usually written in magical short-hand and this one seems to be a compilation edited to sustain continuity with an allegoric tale of Solomon, which may have a didactic purpose (something to teach).

Aaron Leitch has done some excellent research in Solomonic magic and googling his site is probably worth it. There is also the goetica of Dr. Rudd that connects the spirits with Shemhamphorash angels. And there is the view of Aaron Donahue that poses the spirits are aliens and the view of Paul Hughs Barlow that they are genies and the rituals are unecessary.

The last two are modern and the former more traditional. Personally, I my approach is to treat them as a pathworking, which I found effective. I do believe that they are a combination of independent beings and our own subconscious, probably connected through the species mind of humanity and/or beyond.

Since they do tend to represent a radical experience, and since no matter how you prepare this does tend to be a learn as you go thing to some extent, starting from the "friendlier" ones like Vassago is probably a good idea, although I personally start my pathworking with Furcas who is the only one representing the planet Saturn and to me tends to give a lot of info regarding how to approach the rest.

[redhand]

Good one Ari!LOL

Yes, I favor Paul Hughs Barlow's approach myself which is or at least on the surface seems simplistic but, you do need a good foundation in understanding the Tarot to use it and, knowing the guidelines of what the Grimiores refer to about these entities.