Thread: Vision Quest/ Magick

I don't know what else to tell you, but we have members who have thirty or more years under their belt, and they will tend to challenge if they feel a bit of an attitude or posts that go no where, this is how they see it. You are lucky this forum I am told showed no mercy to new members, so it has calmed down a lot.

Originally Posted by Belasko

Yes I think a few of us are seeing long drawn out posts between two people who's egos are so big, they are leaving out others in the conversation. It is becoming redundant, long drawn out posts that are saying absolutely nothing except "Look at me, I am an intellectual, I know absolutely nothing about the occult, but I talk a good game." It has come to a love fest between these two, so if you are so inclined to continue your gibberish as one member pointed out then I am sure you both can make the perfect match off the board. I have read the posts Dear and all you need are a few hard back chairs some food, and new age music and you will be back in the 90's. By the way the Sara D is new here, and she has already picked up on you two but then again it is not hard to do.

But again, all that we get from you, Belasko, is one giant minus sign. I was hoping that you would include in your reply a substantive development, either for or against, of the numerous claims which have been made during the course of this thread--after all, you appear to imply that you are an expert occultist. I chose not to take my conversation with Natasha into private messaging, in the hopes that someone would, in fact, opt to join in on the discussion.

wow, very mature, your behavior confirms your character too well.

As I am aware we have a bit of a problem. Belasko happens to be very well respected in the Occult World especially the OTO, so I don't think anything anyone can say will make a dent. I will say is let us get back on topic the actual topic and stop the nit picking, or i will close the thread till it stops.

I would have sworn that Belasko was quoting Sean Connery, but I can't find the quote.

Anyway.....I can just see Sean Connery saying that as Dr. Henry Jones.

I know I've heard Sean Connery say, "Oh, Jesus, not one of you!" and "I don't give a ****!," in his movies, but perhaps not in the same one, lol. A medley of Sean Connery, perhaps. Perhaps I'm way off, but it seems something amusing to do.

Anyway, I would love to add something to this thread, but Astral Projection is really not my expertise, as far as I know. Sometimes I do things and it takes awhile for me to figure out what people are calling it.

Yes and he is probably Sean Connery.

Originally Posted by ZeldaFitz

Yes and he is probably Sean Connery.

lol, anything is possible.

Honestly, though, I just can't get into the whole internet feud thing. I have to deal with enough violence outside of the forums. So this and the stuff with the Permanent site doesn't seem that significant.

Someone I know shot someone in the head last week. Then, they were disarmed and almost beaten to death, for comparison. That wasn't the only thing, either. Someone else was killed, and someone who knew them had issues with it, so I had to deal with that.

The world is so fucked up. Sometimes I laugh, because if I didn't I would cry.

Yeah, I do have Facebook, but I don't use it very much; in fact, I have never even made the acquaintance of the majority of people on my friends list. I will, nonetheless, privately message you with my information.


"I believe I understand what you are saying about lower magick and sex. You are saying there must be a higher meaning to the goal? Which is how I feel about "True Will". If the goal does not really aid me or True Will, then why bother?"

Yes, and the same applies for other material plane goals such as "career," which was the example that I originally selected for analysis, a fact that seems to have slipped past Belasko and his "love fest" obsession.

"Recently I've been studying Evolutionary Biology and books by Carl Sagan."

Interesting, as evolutionary biology and, perhaps especially, its ramifications for consciousness studies and the social sciences is currently receiving a good degree of rightly placed attention. However, other than the works of Richard Dawkins, and his acolyte, Dennett, I am not overly familiar with the literature of this area of inquiry.

"I think next I am going to take a tour back through Hermetics with a Stephen Flowers book."

While I do admire Flowers' work in reviving the Germanic esoteric tradition, I had the feeling that he was way out of his league during my reading of his Hermetic Magic. He makes a brief mention of Neoplatonism, but omits to mention any of those philosophers whose works most directly relate to magic (neither Iamblichus nor the massively influential Proclus; not even the apostate Emperor Julian and as his pagan theurgic evangelism!)--contenting himself with Plotinus, who is generally held to have been at least somewhat antipathetical to ritualism. We might excuse him here, as the Hermetic Corpus and much of the Greek Magical Papyri predate the Neoplatonists; but his bibliography is vacant of any entry of either primary or secondary source material on the Middle Plantonists, or "underworld" Platonic/Neo-Pythagorean movements such as that of the Juliani (the younger Julianus having coined the term "theourgeia), which relate directly to the Hermetic Corpus (instead, in an equally botched fashion, he presents as supplementary material, a caricatured Gnosticism).

My own personal recommendation is that you purchase Hans Dieter Betz's The Greek Magical Papyri in translation, if you do not alread possess it. Indeed, therein you will find a unique text, traditionally--though inaccurately--titled "The Mithras Liturgy," the methods of which relate directly to the topic of this thread: the contiguity between astral projection and active imagination. Afterwards, in turn, I would suggest that you turn your attention to the scholarly works on late antique esotericism--it has become a hot topic among classicists and Egyptologists as of late--; Christopher Faraone, David Frankfurt (some of his essays are superbly insightful), Georg Luck, Garth Fowden, and my former professor, Derek Collins, are some scholars whose works might be of interest to you.

I know one things people tend to think they get desensitized to all the violence and the cruelty in the world, but you really don't. I find myself crying at times, and I have been accused of not having a heart. I don't have time for feuds, I just tell the truth, don't care if anyone cares or not, and go on my merry little way.

Originally Posted by ZeldaFitz

I know one things people tend to think they get desensitized to all the violence and the cruelty in the world, but you really don't. I find myself crying at times, and I have been accused of not having a heart. I don't have time for feuds, I just tell the truth, don't care if anyone cares or not, and go on my merry little way.

Yeah, this past week was tough on me. There is so much I'm not able to disclose because of confidentiality, etc., but someone expressed something that was from their heart and they are in so much pain, feeling like no one cares. I had to question why they thought no one cared, and when I looked around, I'm not sure too many of my co-workers did care. I mean, the reality of their life is so damn depressing, it is truly horrific. And, to look at this person, you wouldn't know it, because they hide it, but deep inside, its real bad.

Lately, when I am having a bad day, I think of them and things don't seem so bad anymore.

I haven't cried for them, but thats only because I hold it back. I could cry very easily for them, though.

Empathy is a pain in the butt, sometimes.

I wonder if Astral Projection could help with any of it.

You know over the years I have come to the conclusion that sometimes the people with the most empathy for others' pain seem the most heartless, because after years of seeing others suffer, die, etc., I have distanced myself from those feelings to protect myself, and sometimes that makes me seem uncaring.

That is probably the other thing I'm working on. Controlling emotion during crises. It is tough, especially when dealing with the type of crises I have to deal with.