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Thread: Chaos magic general question

  1. #21
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    It's funny, because I'm a Gnostic (LHP), and mostly study historical texts, but there are certain things from, 'Chaos Magic(k) Tradition,' that really appeal to me. The Peter Carroll books mentioned, 'Liber Null,' and, 'Liber Kaos,' and, 'Psychonaut,' are all really interesting. Of the three, Liber Null would be my favorite, as it focuses on the use of art as a focus for its practices.

    The Phil Hine books are interesting on another level, although not as interesting to me. 'Kondensed Kaos,' reads a great deal like a self-help book, and has a real dry sense of humor. Its kind of interesting to see the occult in that light, but as Phil Hine points out in the book, practitioners of the occult generally practice for purposes of either self-gain or self-development.

    Another interesting group of texts is headed under, 'Discordianism.' Most of the books started out as pamphlets, and there are collections of the pamphlets on different sites online. Also, 'The Illuminatus Trilogy,' by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson has a ton of Discordian themes. Discordianism is not so much an occult practice as the practice of mocking law and order, but it qualifies as a rather strange sort of contemporary religion.

    In terms of Chaos Magic theory, the general idea (sort of repeating) is that any form of belief can give the believer some sort of power. The reality we see depends on belief, and any belief is therefore valid as a means of gaining power. Its a sort of nihilism - or maybe a very absolute form of relativism. As people have also pointed out, it doesn't really matter if you believe in Chaos Magic theory or not, because as far as Chaos Magic theory is concerned, all beliefs are valid.

    I think there is more to the Universe than Chaos Magic theory. Still - I can still remember my hardcopy of Liber Null and Psychonaut (they usually publish them bundled together), which I had carefully hidden in the closet from my parents.
    "... And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free..."

  2. #22
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    In my opinion Chaos magic is a methodology and not a system, you can be a chaos magician and a ceremonial magician, or shaman, or whatever else, chaos magic is more about how you approach magic, not what magic you practice.
    If you want to use a scientific metaphor chaos magic is like the scientific method, it is about how you arrange your experiment, not about the subject of the experiment.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Zads View Post
    I think Chaos magick are for people unable to suffer cognitive dissonance. The type who would profess being a die-hard baptist and a die-hard atheist at the same time and see nothing wrong with it.
    For me, it's actually much simpler, and more a matter of using what works for the situation from whatever source it comes, although I know some others are more extreme in their approach. I've successfully used methods outside of my tradition for various things, and they have worked for me because they aren't in opposition to my core beliefs (all deities are different manifestations of the same Deity, they are both internal and external, all magick requires the same qualities, intent is the same, etc.) It's safe to say that there is also a strong Daoist current running through the Chaos magick paradigm, so maybe it's not all that different after all. I guess I look at magick like cooking: you may be more knowledgeable about and prefer to cook particular things, but if you have a good understanding of the basic principles and know your way around a kitchen, you can pretty much make what you want.

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    Cognitive dissonance is supposed to be where we are compelled to act but not know the consequence of our actions - thus we justify our act to act in a certain way or to not act in a certain way based on past consequences.

    I still think they technically could still suffer it, considering that a magician still has to go after what they have done the spell for. If a chaos magician did a spell to achieve a job, they would still have to go after that job and may find themselves doubting that they could get the job and maybe due to fear suddenly ''realize'' that they don't want the job because they think they are better than the job. However, a chaos magician is so used to jumping into different paradigms that it makes it easier to jump into a paradigm that would help the magician overcome the fear and thus - be capable of getting what he or she wants regardless.

    In my opinion Chaos magic is a methodology and not a system, you can be a chaos magician and a ceremonial magician, or shaman, or whatever else, chaos magic is more about how you approach magic, not what magic you practice.
    If you want to use a scientific metaphor chaos magic is like the scientific method, it is about how you arrange your experiment, not about the subject of the experiment.
    I agree with this, though it is also a system as well... if you read Liber Null and Psychonaut it basically will explain how it is used in such a manner.

    To tap into Chaos you need to be beyond duality.
    Last edited by devakxes; 03-10-2011 at 01:50 AM.
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    @E-Zads: Are you trying to connect Lasch's Patological Narcissism with avreage personality of Chaos ''magican''?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraveyardSlut View Post
    @E-Zads: Are you trying to connect Lasch's Patological Narcissism with avreage personality of Chaos ''magican''?
    E-Zads, by "extreme" I meant going to the lengths of working with things seemingly in opposition to one another (your example of religious belief and atheism.) I've never run into this personally, as I find most things are within my belief system, at least to an extent. For example, I am not of the Norse tradition, but I know that working with Thor would essentially be the same to me as working with Lei Shen, as they are both thunder gods; both carry hammers; both fly; both punish the "wicked"; etc. So, I would work with them in a very similar way. Likewise, I have no problem praying to the Christian god if a Christian friend asks me to, as in my mind it's all the same deity anyway, so I'd just be calling to the Jade Emperor or Tai Shang Lao Jun in a different form.

    And GraveyardSlut (man...I love typing that name!), I think a degree of solipsism applies to your question here as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Shaolin View Post

    And GraveyardSlut (man...I love typing that name!), I think a degree of solipsism applies to your question here as well.
    I just tried to ask and see if I understand the roots of E-Zads principles, not to support Lasch's theory or Zads' theory. E-Zads' last post is just remembering me of some theories I studied long time ago.

  8. #28
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    I know GraveyardSlut. I was making a point that pathological narcissism can lead to solipsism, and that a great many occultists seem to be subject to that.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-S-O-N View Post
    As much I agree with this, I am also the view some one has to start some where. I already ordered the book liber null after hearing the introduction on you tube. Seems very interesting.
    If everything is permitted and nothing is true, then fucking children is ok by that logic.

  10. #30
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    chaos is not the opposite of order, nor is it random, and yes, fucking children is ok, lol

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