Thread: The Meaning of Lucifer.

To me when reading the Kybalion was as well, a perfect way to explain Luciferiansm and the core of what Lucifer the concept is ...all who seek wisdom ,truth, advancement, etc.. are Luciferians. We as humans are born being so...If one thinks about a young child , baby, they have an innate need to explore and learn to survive and eventually become independent of it's parents, it also is a form of how I see Luciferianism.
This journey does not have to halt, when we become adult, but I beleive should continue throughout our lives. If dissrupted though religion or social, environmental pressures, it simply hinders evolution on both the individual level and on the bigger scale where maturity on a whole culture of people will be arrested.
Also, yes the mental duality is a must or nautral, the way I see it.
The human mind and self, for a natural process of maturity to occur, as there would not be otherwise a way to reflect and learn indipendently in our own selves..
But is this then becoming a God? yes, on some level, as then we are our own creators..

To me, it is becoming the best we can be, in our selves, somehow the concept of God is not the all mighty person, but something that just is all around us, the life force and due to the concept of Lucifer we are as humans, different from other animals, through evolution or Lucifer.
So becoming the best we can become , yes it will bring us closer to being connected to everything around us, so in one way, we will then become a part of the whole or if you like God.

However, I see this as just normal natural process, what we are here for...not something that is laced with sin, etc...

Did Lucifer fall to the Abyss and rise up? yes, I beleive so , like we will have to or did, as well , to rise and be more...I see this as the Duality , Polarity, Light Dark, etc...as well..

So you believe in Lucifer as an actual entity?

If yes... Do you believe in Satan and God too?

And if yes... Why won't you just believe in God but choose Lucifer instead? I mean... Okay we see Satan doing many things in the Bible and Diabolic books that can prove that He is strong and can stand against God.

But, what about Lucifer? What has He done if He is not Satan? I mean He fell from Heaven and then what? We have no other mention of His name in the old scriptures.

The word ''cherub'' being in there doesn't mean ****. Considering that it could mean a bunch of different things when you look at the original translation and the context it was spoken in. Hell, it could be a metaphor. This is in regards to the whole Helel thing.

I have never really read the Kybalion so I can't necessarily say what I think of Lucifer in terms of the Kybalion. As I read through this website which explains it... I come to the conclusion that I know these things but I have them in my mind under different teminologies. This is due to my studies in thelema... which takes a lot from the hermetic traditions.

In terms of dualism... I see Lucifer and God, as Chaos/Rebellion and Order, respectively.
Going to either polarity has its' benefits... I don't view them necessarily as the source of All That Is... just two principles/forces that are in opposition. It reminds me a lot of zoroastrianism and zurvanism... the whole point of there being a good twin and a bad twin who desire to rule the kingdom.
The kingdom being creation. If you look at The Diabolicon they show Lucifer as a rebel for free-will and God as the source of Order... Order naturally desires to conform everything to One Will which cannot allow free-thinking and Will to be. Chaos naturally is the tendency to think and to rebel against Order... to differentiate. It all comes down to the concept of ''what came first''... Is chaos temporary - being brought back into the dripping jaws of Father Order? Is order temporary - being brought back into the vagina dentata of Mother Chaos?

Instead of looking at Lucifer from the point of being a rebel who just desires to live his life - they view this force as something selfish and proud.

Another thought with Pride. In my particular form of Luciferianism... just as the ego is destroyed to allow the light of The All in... the ego is exalted in Luciferianism and unites with one's spark of divinity to produce a flame which cannot die within the darkness of existence... a flame that cannot be eaten by Order.

But... If you don't believe that this "Babylonian king" is Lucifer... the Father Cherub, then how can you say that you believe in Lucifer who was a rebel against God?

Anyway, according to all the scriptures / traditions that speak about Lucifer, Lucifer was a rebel not because He wanted to be free and loved free will, but because He wanted to be superior than God.

Lucifer is the god of progress and intellectual inquiry, not only the divine inspiration behind the spiritual enlightenment of the Gnostic and the heretic and the lover of God in all his/her forms.
Through Lucifer's spirit humanity first climbed down from the trees and has represented the flow of progress ever since.

But Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light!
A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star - and now we know we have our own inner light.

Originally Posted by fatalist

Hi EtuMalku. My emphasis on Lucifer’s “sin” didn’t mean that I am succumbing to a Christian based ideology. I am sorry if I wasn’t clear on this. By focusing on Lucifer’s “sin” I was just trying to elaborate on exactly what the essence of Lucifer is. I think most Luciferians will agree that Lucifer symbolizes Pride first and foremost. However, this is my opinion and I would like to know what others believe is the essence of Lucifer.

If we recall, the original sin of mankind for which Lucifer/Satan was responsible for was the knowledge between good and evil. In Genesis 3:4-5 it states that:

But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.

In my opinion, the ability to know good and evil is a process of dualistic thinking, to be able to choose, to have free-will, for which Lucifer is responsible. And as I have noted in a previous post, this dualistic-alchemical process enables one to be a God. However, if Lucifer is responsible for this dualistic thinking, why does it state that you will be like God? Does this mean that God and Lucifer are alike? My own answer to this and in regards to the Hermetic principles is that since the All exists, it takes Pride as well. And through such Pride, the All manifests its creation. We are told in Genesis that as God created his creation, he evaluated it in terms of good or bad. Therefore, existence is based on a dual relationship to possess its identity in the Mind of the All. From this perspective, I agree with you EtuMalku that God is a jealous God since he possesses Pride from which all his creation takes root. We are therefore, as Luciferians, feel justified by adaptation of God’s Knowledge to seek out our own creation and God-hood. I also think that your interpretation mirrors the story of Prometheus. Can you elaborate on what you think was that “Knowledge” that Lucifer stole from God?

Originally Posted by EtuMalku

Lucifer is the god of progress and intellectual inquiry, not only the divine inspiration behind the spiritual enlightenment of the Gnostic and the heretic and the lover of God in all his/her forms.
Through Lucifer's spirit humanity first climbed down from the trees and has represented the flow of progress ever since.

But Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light!
A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star - and now we know we have our own inner light.

This is to me, the most amazing way of putting it...almost 'holy'...
This is exatly, the way I see it too...Love the way you describe it, it is the life force in all of us...

I've made my way to the 5th chapter of the Kybalion and after having the knowledge that you spoke of - I find that absolutely profound what you spoke about in terms of pride.

In Thelema... these two dualistic principles are Nuit and Hadit. Nuit is represented as the infinite circle reaching outward (The All/God) while Hadit is the point within the circle... omnipresent within the circle (infinite points or manifestations because the circle is infinite) and infinitely going within. The goal of thelema is to unite the Point and The Circle resulting in a rapture and uniting the One with the All, thus increasing the process of becoming infinite for all and one's self.

In this case Hadit is Lucifer... but the big point in Thelema is union is attainable because Hadit is the lover of Nuit... being that they are both the same in essence... because if Nuit is reaching out everywhere infinitely then Hadit is the natural result... ''Every man and Every Woman is a star'' is the concept of that. When I was reading an introduction to this it talked about how many philosophies through-out the world had taken from Hermetism and I think this is supposed to be Thelema's way of explaining the whole creation thing. In this sense, creation never happened....

My only concern was originally the concept of why there is disorder if there is a generative principle between the two forces.... resulting in progress. Then I remembered the law of rhythm. Thank you, this has expanded my mind in a new light and direction.

It does sound a little new Age-ish, but that's not where I'm coming from really.
The Principle of Light is very intriguing as well as the metaphors and mythology concerning Light (as vibration).

Lucifer and Prometheus is the title of a classic work of psychological literary criticism written by R.J. Zwi Werblowsky and published in 1952. In it, Werblowsky argues that the Satan[1] of John Milton's Paradise Lost became a disproportionately appealing character because of attributes he shares with the Greek Titan Prometheus.

- READ MORE - Lucifer and Prometheus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I would agree with your concept of Man's mastery of Nature, indeed to Master the Physical Plane (objective universe) is a goal of any Left Hand Path Initiate.

Originally Posted by fatalist

EtuMalku, you have an interesting perspective on Lucifer. However, I have to admit I find the DNA part of it more New-Age’ish rather than anything symbolically relevant to Lucifer. Please excuse me if I am wrong.

Also, when you mention him as symbolic to the spirit of humanity, are you drawing any parallels here between Lucifer and Prometheus? In my understanding of Prometheus, I like to think that the flow of progress for which Lucifer/Prometheus is responsible for in humanity is humanity’s mastery over nature. Not the other way around.

In regards to Pride, what I mentioned before isn't described in the Kybalion or in any of Hermetic teachings that I know of. However, I don't find how my concept of Pride contradicts any of the Hermetic principles either. I borrowed this concept from "rational egoistic" philosophies. To me, Pride neccessitates the law of identity, the law of identity neccessitates the law of polarity, the law of polarity neccessitates dualistic thinking, this neccessitates self-awareness. Based on Lucifer's symbolic meaning and his "sin" in relation to the All, I believe that Lucifer is the embodiment of Pride/Self-Awareness.

I agree fully on this.
Part of Thelema is breaking the concept of ''I exist''... because of our identification with the mind and various other things. In Thelema they seek to make the Ego identify with The Higher Self... the part of you that is more you than all you call you... the source of consciousness... instead of identifying with the body and mind and letting these things control you (though the higher self is part mind... just on a higher level. The law of correspondence.)

The problem is that the law of identity is perfect. Most things have an opposite but there is no being that is completely one's opposite and so it is hard to understand that one's Self is also one with The All. This requires crossing The Abyss in order to go and destroy all of the identifications one has, in order so that the ego may identify with the Higher Self. It is in this sublime state of ''neither neither'' that the Ego may perish completely and allow one to perceive with our spiritual senses - the all. (''I am you, and you are me, and we are one'') In my opinion, the consciousness of Man is ultimately the polar opposite of The All. Since we have a tendency to do this:

I understand that due to our nature we tend to look at everything from a positive viewpoint. In other words, we tend to bring the dark questions to light, our light. It’s a form of rationalizing about everything to the benefit of our deepest interests/ego. We are all guilty of it, but then again, that’s the only way anything can make sense to us in the first place.

But this desire to identify with thoughts and material things... is unending because we have not found the infinite spark of light within us... due to ''The All being within All. ''

I don't think it is the ultimate goal of humanity to dissolve one's Higher Self into The All, because that to me is spiritual suicide. It is in that sublime ''neither neither'' state that occurs after crossing the Abyss where one can choose to obliterate the ego and connect with The All and lose one's self... or go and identify with one's higher self and seek self-deification. The spark of divinity becomes a flame by ''burning'' up the Ego and becoming completely whole in itself - intoxicated on self love that pours outward into everything.
This latter view is where my luciferianism takes hold... becoming a God. Thelema seeks instead to unite the Self with God.

Some may interpret that ''self love'' as pride.

The All is said to breathe into Creation ... an ''outpouring'' of itself into its' creation... and then drawing it all back in. To say that The All would essential desire to ''cannabilize'' us is the desire of a weak man seeking otherworldly escapism. The All does not require anything in order to be satisfied because it is Infinite.

@fatalist . I do beleive we have a different preception what 'holy' means...
For me refering to how something is described in this instance, I did mean something true from Within...Not something 'holy' as in the christian way.