Thank you very much...I'll wait for an answer....Do you know where else i can ask about it??? :}}}
All true all true.
Thought i`d also post a brief "flip" for anyone and make myself even more unpopular,
"Magick is not an object for academic study - it is essentially practical.
It also requires self-discipline and training - the acquisition of skills.
No books or teacher can teach magick it can only be learnt by
practice, by the trials and errors of experience. All books and teachers
can do, at best, is guide: toward and into the relevant experiences and
offer some explanations for cause, effect and what is beyond the causal.
Similarly, willful self-expression will be mostly counter-productive.
What is required of the novice and Initiate is self-discipline and that
insight which arises from achievement and adversity. Modern life, however,
has made these things difficult it is easy to be self-opinionated, to
accept the comforts of modern living and the lack of self-discipline, just
as modern "methods" and "ideas" about "magick" make it seem that
understanding of and achievement in magick is easy: all that is needed are
the relevant books/ grade manuals/ information and a chaotic
mind/attitude/approach.
There is not and never has been any substitute for self-learning from experience.
The real learning of magick occurs by the individual novice,
alone: group work and group experience merely confirm that learning and
extend the techniques, the forms that are used. This is so because real
magick is internal - an alchemy of psychic change. It is the techniques
which are external. For instance, sexual magick is a technique of magick -
it is not magick or ‘magickal’ in itself - just as ceremonial ritual is a
technique. All techniques are forms which are dormant – they need
vivifying, bringing to life: they need to be infused with the ‘breath of
life’. This vivification is magick, and its achievement is individual,
that is, it does not rely on the form - on minute details of performance
or technique. Sometimes, this vivification is shared - e.g. between two
individuals undertaking a sexual rite or a group gathering for a ceremony.
For too long the techniques have been regarded as magickal in
themselves, leading to a complete misunderstanding of magick.
Magick is beyond technique - techniques and forms
merely presence the magick in the causal, and to access the magickal
energies skill is required. Sometimes, this skill is intuitive – an inborn
gift - but most often it has to be cultivated, learnt, acquired. The skill
is an internal one, and may be likened to an attitude of mind. It is a
"moving with" magickal energies as those energies are, in themselves - it
is not a loose, undirected approach, a chaotic acceptance, but a finely
balanced direction; not a loss of conscious awareness/ understanding, but
a new type of awareness. It is like running long distances: innate ability
may help, but training is required, an awareness of limitations born from
past experience, a self-discipline to achieve the distance in the time set
- and then the running, which when successful is a ‘flowing with’ the body
and mind…" and so on etc etc
From "the alchemy of magic" Hostia Vol I (ona)
i agree with these 2 statements but never underestimate "guide"
yes, all the best stuff in the books is kept 'in between the lines' as expressed by several authors, and therefore, in all the works of the philosphers, no regular person would find or actually 'notice'
when your learning about the occult, as far as a psycological perspective is concerned, which is really preperation for any real magic, you will not learn anything unless you have the experience to compliment the theory, so both an intellectual recognition as well as an 'emotional'
but the correct underline philosophy is needed for the given magical system one is to work with, hence the need for a "guide", or at least a foreground of comparative spiritual knowledge to base the magical system.
otherwise it just seems to be a shot in the dark.
being sucessful in understanding the occult requires both an intellectial and emotional experience, the books cannot be underestimated.
Last edited by raymond lulle; 04-08-2009 at 02:14 AM.
Couldnt agree more. I have found that an emphasis upon the written word has waned as the years have passed, although as you say, if it were not for this and any direct guidance that we recieve then a solid progression would not have come about. An awareness of what has already been discovered and made known is necessary, yes, as a spur to go further.
Information
SPOOF CATECHISM AGAINST SPAIN, REFERING TO THE EAST & WEST INDIES
[TWELVE YEARS' TRUCE]. Dialogus oft Tzamensprekinge, gemaect op den Vredehandel. Ghestelt by vraghe ende antwoordt. Overghezet wt de Fransoysche ...
[Amsterdam?], 1608. Small 4to. With a large oval woodcut decoration (white-line arabesque) on the title-page. Modern wrappers.
Orders and Information € 350
(8) pp. Alden & Landis 608/26 (1 copy); Asher 26, 27 or 28/27; Knuttel 1416; Simoni C-56; Tiele 668; STCN (7 copies); cf. OCLC WorldCat (2 copies of another ed.); not in JCB.
A spoof Catechism (the first question, "Is there a monarch?," replacing "Is there a God?") reciting with both crude humour and remarkable erudition the evils of the King of Spain, the peace negotiations and the Jesuits. It mentions Spain's discovery of the New World under Ferdinand and Isabella (which the King wants to use to take over the Old World), the damage done to the King by Dutch trade in the East Indies and his fear that the same will happen in the West Indies. "What sort of creatures are Jesuits?" brings several answers: Hyenas (a marginal note states that hyenas are a cross between a leopard and a lion, but more like a wolf, because they not only devour but are subtle as well), butchers of innocent souls, and "den laetsten stront die den Antechrist ghescheten heeft" (the latest turd that the Anti-Christ has shat). Referring to the Pope giving benediction by making the sign of the cross, the question "What is such a cross good for?" is answered, "For shooing away flies in the summer." The anonymous author supposes his audience educated enough to understand his numerous allusions to Greek mythology (including Ulysses and the Cyclops), Alexander the Great, Rabelais's Gargantua, alchemy (the King of Spain giving the Pope silver for wax and lead), etc., and he even quotes four lines of verse from Plautus in Latin (Captivi , lines 255-256 = II.ii, lines 5-6) with a translation into Dutch. The pamphlet ends with a prayer for the "geuzen" or "sea-beggars": privateers in small fishing boats who harassed Spanish ships with great success).
The French original noted on the title-page was apparently never published, but survives in two anonymous manuscripts dated 1607 (Knuttel 1413 and Wulp 1093). The Dutch translation went through at least four editions dated 1608 and was reprinted again decades later, even though it was banned. It was issued with all three editions of the Nederlandtschen Bye-Korf between 6 April and 27 August 1608, but the order of the editions dated 1608 is uncertain. The present one may be printed on the same paper stock as some other Bye-Korf pamphlets (Knuttel 1439 & 1449), watermarked: Pot (bearing a letter "R") topped by grapes = --, but the R is obscured by the type in the present pamphlet.
With some tears in or near the fold, not affecting the text, but otherwise in very good condition. A rare example of an erudite author wielding a sharp humour in the pamphlet war against the proposed truce with Spain.
this is all i found thus fare but i will keep looking sorry it took me so long.
Das Antichristdrama des Mittelalters der Reformation und Gegenreformation
by Klaus Aichele
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Type: Book; German
Publisher: Den Haag : Martinus Nijhoff, 1974.
ISBN: 9024716446 : 9789024716449
OCLC: 1380208
Related Subjects: Religious drama -- History and criticism. | Drama, Medieval -- History and criticism. | European drama -- Renaissance, 1450-1600 -- History and criticism.
View all subjects
Antichrist -- History of doctrines. |Théâtre religieux -- Histoire. |Théâtre médiéval -- Histoire et critique. |Théâtre européen -- 1450-1600 -- Histoire et critique. |Antéchrist.
Citations: Cite this Item | Export to EndNote | Export to RefWorks
people seemed to have lost that style of authorship, leo strauss relates it almost entirely being in response to the threat of the church, but then that would imply a negation of the emotional value of writing in an esoteric sense, which then leo struass seems to hint at, or i should say the actual effect of an esoteric style of writing, ie numerological patterns in dante or other famous spiritual texts of the middle ages.
so its kind of a trap, if an esoteric style of writing has a dual purpose or if it is one of either; entirely in relation to the church and their reputation for burning "witches" at the stake, or the other, being its emotional effect.
almost every philosopher i have read to mention esoteric style of writing seems to always give the idea somewhere else in the text the emotional impact of an esoteric style of writing.
as the church has passed in relation to books such darwins evo, and not really being able to burn books anymore, people may have lost the need to 'hide things between the lines' in a political sense, but obviously, the esoteric implication of best selling novels, or even, theoretical physics books, seems to be very evident.
but again, as a political idea, it seems not so much that important ideas are hid between the lines as much as they are hid between the mass of information during the titled age.
Sorry raymond (again ) I meant to say the focus has waned for myself.
Interesting point here I think though would be the influence of the "true grimore" archetype on the mind during the earlier years of occult development - tricky also this, as any message gets "filtered" through this projection on its way to an interpretation? Maybe the reading in an esoteric writing style/symbolic content etc is useful, even necessary at first, but maybe an indulgence later then? Although a focus upon the mystery, concept,and arcane meanderings etc. may be interesting forms initially, to allow access for any "hidden meanings" (open secrets are neither seen or even wanted for the neophyte,), surely there is not much need for it beyond this, as, like you say, such writing styles are safe (ish) today? Of course, some authors might use this book archetype to their advantage, for making themselves rich and/or for "seeding" an idea through a "sign stimulus" I agree and also doubt whether modern allegory came about as a result of xtian persecution, so would go along with the second of your dual options here, maybe it merely grew out of the symbolic teaching stories of old, although one reason to continue with this style today could be that sometimes thinking with numinous and abstract symbols is the best way to access the deeper mind But again, this wouldn't be of much use in a "coffee table" book , which could bring us back to your point on the political implications of such publications and the manipulation of archetypes?
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