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Thread: Karmic Laws: Reality or Scare Tactic?

  1. #1
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    Default Karmic Laws: Reality or Scare Tactic?

    My whole life, I've always been very consciously aware of the karmic backlash of my actions and thoughts. Basically, when I entertained the thought of doing something I would consider "bad" or "inconsiderate", I would then remember that if I did, karma would beat my ass about it, and it's not worth it. And of course, I was always under the impression that the more "good" I did, the more the universe would "reward" me with more good things.

    However, the older I get, and the more I experience life, I'm starting to realize more and more that life simply does NOT work that way. I now think Karma in itself, as far as within the context of THIS particular incarnation, is a total fraud, and has little to no influence on how my life unfolds. I mainly think this because not only are actions and thoughts subjective as far as how "good" or "bad" they are, but the whole idea of karma working in this way in the first place comes from organized religious trains of thought like Christianity, acting as if some man in the sky is watching my every move and thought and will "judge" them and have some kind of control over my destiny. Such a primitive, laughable thought.

    So basically, I've come to a point where I feel like I should quit holding back on being who I truly WANT to be, and just go for it, and truly live a life worthy of the "do what thou wilt" law. I'm not saying I should go out and kill people or something lol, because I don't WANT to do that, but saying that I should do what I DO want to do regardless of what anyone thinks. For example, over the years, I've grown a liking to hardcore dominating sexual situations lol, and in the beginning, I felt "ashamed" for enjoying that, but the more and more I opened myself up to other females in that way, and see how much they surprisingly ENJOYED it more when I "owned" them rather than only doing what she "allows" me to do, it made me look back on all the times in my life where my being "too nice" to a female has RUINED things with that particular female. It's a weird example I know lol, but it's one that I truly feel and one I think that can be applied to most other facets in my life as well.

    Overall, I mainly want to hear what others think about karmic laws, and if people truly think stuff like "threefold law" actually is REAL, or if they, like me, have experienced life long enough to see that it doesn't truly apply to life at all. Not to say that the law of attraction isn't real, but I think that's something very different, and based more on our individual PERCEPTION of our actions and thoughts, and is based more on "like attracts like", without actually JUDGING the action and reality.

  2. #2
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    Well I think its a bit of both. When we take any sort of action at all it sets off a chain of events. Rather the out come of said events is good or bad for those concerned depends on the actions of those concerned. So to a certain degree if your going to treat people any way you like there will be back lash in the way they behave towards you. If you try and do the right thing, so to speak. People will be more likely to lend a hand when they can. Goes back to the old do unto others thing.
    Two men can meet quicker than two mountains ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
    Well I think its a bit of both. When we take any sort of action at all it sets off a chain of events. Rather the out come of said events is good or bad for those concerned depends on the actions of those concerned. So to a certain degree if your going to treat people any way you like there will be back lash in the way they behave towards you. If you try and do the right thing, so to speak. People will be more likely to lend a hand when they can. Goes back to the old do unto others thing.
    But why? Says who?


    Quote Originally Posted by Iza View Post
    it depends on what your esoteric beliefs and teachings are.
    But why? Says who?



    I'm trying to understand which side of this is more scientifically sound, and why.

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    Default

    I've been exploring this in a couple articles I've been writing, one admittedly was more blog rant after fighting with a coworker over her skewed version of karma and law of attraction. I often look at karma as just a cause and effect law on the physical plane we live on, as I've come to the idea that perhaps all souls do not originate from the same plane so if one originates on one that is acausal it may not be subject to the ramifications of spiritual karma. Or another theory I've been playing with for many years, that karma was merely guilt creating a self-fulfilling prophecy (both of these views are from experiences and studying different paradigms, testing has not yet proved one way or another as I am not yet dead lol). Another point of ponder I just remembered upon the re-read, many who don't follow karmic laws say they do so because they don't follow the dharma.

    The following are a couple of snips I find amusing out of my articles addressing karma=balance/punishment/reward claims:
    "I find that karma really only applies to the physical world around us or self punishment (guilt). If I go and steal my best friend's husband, I should expect that the effect of my action will be losing my friend. This is something on a base psychological/social level, not the Universe smacking me and saying bad. I followed bad advice on "healthy eating" without doing research, now paying for it with a triggered immune disease, Universe getting me for being bad? No my own ignorance of my genetics and how the veg/grains worked against it. If I over harvest off of a plant or not tend to it properly for it's species, it will die."

    "I have an analogy I like to use in arguments with people for karma and the three-fold-law that deals with balance. Think of yourself as a scale. If you do something "good" or "bad" you place an egg in the appropriate basket. If you do good and the force you see as a deity puts an equal egg into your basket (or 3, 10 or however many for whichever law you believe), eventually the basket will tip in an act to balance itself and you'll have a mess of cracked eggs."

    As I write this with a bowl of shisha and pondering my belief that true balance lies within practicing "light", "dark" and "necro" combined, I come up with an eloquent way to put it.... to be harmonious with something that's in a constant state of flux with life/death cycles one must emulate them within oneself and one's practice. Perhaps this is my draw to working with all aspects, or perhaps it's a paradigm that makes sense in current stage of my life. Then again perception of reality is really based on cognitive mapping so in the end it may all just be a hogwash of illusions created by the mind to punish, enslave or justify actions.

    In the meantime I strive to live by the three elder laws: no guilt, no doubt, no fear. The no fear is a little harder than the other two, still have a few residual fears to shed. They are not as prominent as they were, but still there lurking around.
    -=Ex Ignorantia Ad Sapientiam; E Luce Ad Tenebras=-
    ~Khaotyk Artwerx (khaotyk-artwerx.tk)

  5. #5
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    seekerofprophecies Guest

    Default

    I don't see how emptiness is something to achieve or want. Emptyness implies nothingness.

  6. #6
    C
    Cartoon Character Guest

    Default

    First thing's first: no, you don't want to get on Iza's bad side, and no, you may not survive it. Believe me, I know. How the hell do you think I became a ghost? Okay. That's out of the way....at least for now.

    The whole karmic debate is always a sticky one for most people, and is bound to yield more answers than Elizabeth Taylor had husbands. Most Western perceptions feed the notion that karma is something "bad" or to be feared, as if it were some sort of boogeyman. "Eat your veggies, or karma will get you!" sort of thing. Karma has nothing to do with punishment OR reward in and of itself. At some point, notions of good and bad have to be abandoned in relation to karmic principle, as they are arbitrary and completely subjective ideas. I agree with Iza in that it is a personal thing: karma is "selfish" by its very nature. My karma is for ME, your karma is for YOU, and so forth. The Noble Eightfold Path and the Four Noble Truths are good guidelines in the general sense, but the fact of the matter is (and the truth that most people don't want to recognize or admit) is that not everything that is seen as being "good" in the Buddhist model produces "good" karma, and vice versa. In truth, one will often be on the right track, but not always, and the "good" and "bad" protocols within the system usually don't yield enough of the corresponding karmic result to make much of a difference.

    The traditional Daoist model states that karma is essentially the accumulated force of one's choice. That's it. The original Buddhist model was very close to this, but they have both changed over time, and the currently accepted system coming from Buddhism is generally easier and to a degree safer. There's not much risk involved if one follows what's prescribed in Buddhist karmic thought, and as a result, the payoffs are not nearly as big either. Karma is fueled by and acts as fuel for the human choice mechanism, and there are no true absolutes. Big risk=big karma, and in the Daoist system, karma is tied in with our personal power. The bigger the risk and the harder the choice, the more karma we accrue as a result. I am not speaking from the standpoint of karma being something to eliminate, as this is not possible for most of us (even the gods are subject to karmic law in a sense), and the accumulation of karma allows us to "do" things. The question of whether one's choices produce positive, negative or neutral karma arises, and this is ultimately based on the effect of individual situations and circumstances. This is another way in which the Buddhist system is flawed. There are no absolutes in the karmic sense. Buddhism generally holds the belief that all killing is wrong, regardless of the circumstance. In the Daoist model, this is a ridiculous premise, because no two situations are the same. Granted, Daoism generally discourages killing, but if killing someone is necessary as a means of preventing them from killing you and 5 other people, you do it without a second thought (usually.) Whereas the Buddhist model (and most New Age, Westernized b.s. pseudo-esotericism) would say that you'll reap some karmic backlash for that killing, the Daoist system shows that you'll gain more positive karma due to the fact that your choice to kill in that instance opens up more positive avenues of choice for yourself and the people you've saved, while stopping a predatory act of choice removal in the process.

    We all have lessons to learn, and things we need to work through. Quite often these things are tied somehow to our karma. It's about personal choice and responsibility, not some predetermined system of good and evil. If it were, knowledge of this system would be innate in us all, and we would not be having this discussion in the first place.

  7. #7
    C
    Cartoon Character Guest

    Default

    Interesting indeed. If only we could see how this ride ends! Free Will is a great idea for most people, until they realize it hinges on personal responsibility, that is. I've gone rounds with certain people about this, and have had no problem imposing upon the Free Will of someone who intentionally and maliciously violates the Free Will of others. Again, that's my choice, and it is what is is.

    I don't mind you killing me....it was your Free Will, and I didn't want to violate it. Next time I'm in the china shop, however, I'll remember not to wear red. Just sayin'....

  8. #8
    C
    Cartoon Character Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iza View Post
    i can't stand the color orange.
    Me neither. I've come to loathe and distrust it as of late.

  9. #9
    C
    Cartoon Character Guest

    Default

    And I do. More and more, as the days go by.

  10. #10
    R
    RÊVE Guest

    Default

    What would karma be without memory?

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