Do you think LaVeyan Satanists can be considered as REAL Satanists?

Hey Mirfalan I understand where you are coming from about facts and discrediting the existence of Deities. I remember reading one of your posts about will magic and how you want to work with it on its own, good for you because you are on a powerful path as you probably already know. Have you ever read any books by William Walker Atkinson.
I use that type of magic because I will not be held back by times and Moon phases when I need something done now.
But as far as Deities go well Satan to me is very real to me not because I wish him to be, but that he has proven to be. I have spent many years calling on Satan and have watched myself transform outwardly I am a nice person you would not guess on meeting me that my nature was Satanic, people trust me I show ethics and empathy to all I come across and mean it sincerely to some (Anton) those who deserve it, but to those who are in the way of my ambitions or they are rude I will and have removed from my environment I am a wolf in sheeps clothing, I say this not to sound all powerful I admit willingly I have only practiced the dark side of the occult myself for 5 years 3 of which was reading only I am hardly adept.
Cut to the chase I cant ask Allah or Jesus to fxxk someone over so that I can be better off I chose my Gods because I can approach them with my requests, without being questioned about ethics, or be asked if that is the right thing to do, I know that it is in their nature and I know they will carry it out.

I like some of the principles of COS but I don't call myself a satanist since the term 'satanist' has become quite amigious since the COS was established & I don't worship satan(at least, not yet). Theres a worlds differene between athiestic & theistic satanism & it sounds more logical & makes more sense when you use the word 'satanist' for someone who worships satan rather than someone who is the 'COS type of satanist'.
How nice it would be if they were called by different names. So much time would be saved & so many arguements & discussions could have been avoided.

To be honest I think it hardly matters. They aren't going to stop calling themselves Satanists because we "pseudo's" :rolleyes: wish them too.

Sure I take issue with their view on theism and their thoughts on those of use who are theistic. Though I can appreciate their attitude when you encounter the lack of intelligence and downright wooly thinking of some who call themselves "Satanists". Quite often these people shout the loudest..empty vessels and all that and seem to be a majority.

But for me I don't care what people think of Satanism, I have no interest in the opinion of the masses nor that of most Satanists, especially LaVeyan.

So it really isn't an issue anymore, might of been once. But for me the major concern is about me and what I do. Concerning myself with "are LaVeyans real Satanists or not?" seems like a waste of energy.

I think Satanism has came a long way since the days of Anton LaVey, and that his establishment of the Satanic Church in 1966 was an extremely Satanic Act in that current time (albeit, he instituted it in San Francisco)

and I think, further, it's just how you decide to look at it.


I mean, sure... he does ruffle the feathers of the more Anti-Cosmic/Traditional/Spiritual personalities, but he also opened the doors for many of them, too. (i.e. Aquino, for an example)

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Originally Posted by BadGirl

I think Satanism has came a long way since the days of Anton LaVey, and that his establishment of the Satanic Church in 1966 was an extremely Satanic Act in that current time (albeit, he instituted it in San Francisco)

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It some areas it has come a long way and some individuals and groups have added something of value too Satanism and its development. Sadly there is so much that hasn't and is quite honestly a joke. Satanism as it stands today needs "refining".

For sure Satanism needs refining and to do us all some good it would be better if it was all in one box. But what do you do when you like the teachings of lets say TOTBL and you also like an author like E A Koetting who is an ex-Satanist, who has written some very dark works, their philosophies do not match, one is selfish and builds its own kingdom. The other wishes to destroy all creation because it is the work of the demiurge. Now what do you do, do you follow a practice that is all about you where you can prosper in every way, if you put enough of yourself into it. Or do you spend your life fighting against the demiurge hating him and his people.
Both are noble ways but you could never get both of these systems to agree
E A Koetting says he walks the middle path, TOTBL the left hand path.
So what do we do we borrow a bit from each and have our own path and then come as a lone wolf and howl together at places like this.
There is so much to borrow from out there, and we have no home lets hope that soon there will be a new black order, or Liber Azerate explains everything. 11/11/09

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Originally Posted by Ravana

For sure Satanism needs refining and to do us all some good it would be better if it was all in one box. But what do you do when you like the teachings of lets say TOTBL and you also like an author like E A Koetting who is an ex-Satanist, who has written some very dark works, their philosophies do not match, one is selfish and builds its own kingdom. The other wishes to destroy all creation because it is the work of the demiurge. Now what do you do, do you follow a practice that is all about you where you can prosper in every way, if you put enough of yourself into it. Or do you spend your life fighting against the demiurge hating him and his people.
Both are noble ways but you could never get both of these systems to agree
E A Koetting says he walks the middle path, TOTBL the left hand path.
So what do we do we borrow a bit from each and have our own path and then come as a lone wolf and howl together at places like this.
There is so much to borrow from out there, and we have no home lets hope that soon there will be a new black order, or Liber Azerate explains everything. 11/11/09

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I would say the TotBL are one of the few that have added something of value to Satanism. I don't agree with their beliefs, but were as much Satanism about today is akin to what wicca is to witchcraft, they at least present a Satanism with teeth and claws. The refining that is required is amongst those that have rendered Satan toothless and clawless, that call themselves LHP but shout about Satanic "ethics" and are concerned with what others think of them!? (I'll add I've never read any of Koetting's work. so can't comment)

Taking the the best of what is out there and adapting it to suite would be the best approach, The path to tread is the one you create yourself..isn't it?

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Originally Posted by MrK

I thought LaVey were the joke:) They are not satanists they are simply confused atheists.

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You can't really call them "confused athiests", because they aren't confused about being athiests and why they call themselves Satanists is clearly outlined in the SB. The argument really is can you call yourself a Satanist but not believe in Satan?

A belief in Satan or any deity does throw up a whole host of questions. Where do they come from?, where do they reside?, why do they exist? How did they come into existence? How long have they existed? What interest do they have in us and why? etc etc . I doubt there are any satisfactory answers?

(maybe I'm just questioning my own beliefs!?).

If there is no actual "Satan" then who can and cannot call themselves a Satanist falls in favour of the LaVeyans. The burden of evidence falls on the theist, doesn't it?

But anyone with a strong enough belief is alway's going to argue they are right whether athiest or theist, therefore rendering it all a bit pointless! Head against a brickwall and all that!

Diabolo - definition of Diabolo by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Are you one of these? Or are you making a some sort of other message by using Diabolos11 as your screen name?

Would imagine it doesn't matter that much.

The only reason to apply a label is practicality. There are practical reasons why LaVeyan Satanists identify themselves as Satanists.

Also, you don't need to question your own beliefs if you don't, ironically, already believe belief itself requires justification.

I think that dealing with quaestion like: Where do they come from?, where do they reside?, why do they exist? How did they come into existence? How long have they existed? What interest do they have in us and why? is just to much and no need to.

If working with them hellps you then they exist and you don't need an answers on your quaestions (for some they are just simbols and for some they realy exist in "Third World").