Thread: Do you think LaVeyan Satanists can be considered as REAL Satanists?

Originally Posted by MrK

No one has claimed that this makes the belief real or not. It is simply not the question on weather a faith is real or not that defines if you are a part of it or not. It is the actual believing that makes you a part of that faith. This is the basis of all faiths and really not a difficult subject to grasp really.

I grasped the subject. You simply haven't. The point is about who can claim to be a real Satanist. A flimsy argument like I have faith,( which shouldn't be part of Satanism in my opinion, but whatever), so I'm the real Satanist is no argument. The point which I have been making which has been ignored is: IF SATAN DOESN'T EXIST THEN THE THE ARGUMENT HAS NO FOUNDATION! I can't argue I'm a real Satanist based on a belief in a fantasy!

My conclusion, which was ignored is that as the argument can't be decided either way, then it's a pointless argument. Satanism doesn't have a "Bible" allegedly written by God as it's foundation which you are expected to believe in as part of your "Faith", the definition of a Satanist wasn't decided by a Satanist. And at the end of the day, aside from flimsy arguments there is nothing that stops a Satanist being athiestic or theistic.

The animosity from either camps towards each other is pointless!

At the end of the day the Satanic thing to do in my opinion, is constantly question and challenge belief whether it is theistic or atheistic, anything else is to subscribe to delusional wooly thinking....like "Faith".

I agree with the original post that I am not a fan of Laveyan Satanists. I don't believe that they are even deserving of the title 'Satanist'. They are merely atheists who seem to enjoy the theatrics of inverted pentagrams, hooded cloaks and altars. Their entire religion is a joke. Their religion is merely a weak excuse to be as self-pleasing, self-centered and selfish as possible, without any actual want for enlightenment or occultic wisdom.
It is a weak religion for weak-minded individuals who consider themselves stronger than Christians, but who truly aren't any better at all.
Selfishness and excessive hedonistic tendencies does NOT bring about enlightenment, although I doubt that Laveyans care nor have any want to receive intelligence or enlightenment anyway.

I despise them.

Originally Posted by MrK

Well your argument is wrong which we have proven over and over again.The only people that can claim to be a satanist is the believers. You are totally free to call your self a modern satanist if you want though since that term has another definition. What stops a satanist from being an atheist is the same thing that stops a christian from being an atheist. Really how is this even issue that needs to explained most 10 year old's would grasp this without any problems what so ever.

I'm not a modern satanist, never said I was. You keep on going on about me missing the point and now insults, but clearly you have missed the point through out. It isn't me who can't grasp the argument but yourself sheesh, pot calling the kettle and all that!!

Originally Posted by Whore_of_the_black_abyss

I agree with the original post that I am not a fan of Laveyan Satanists. I don't believe that they are even deserving of the title 'Satanist'. They are merely atheists who seem to enjoy the theatrics of inverted pentagrams, hooded cloaks and altars. Their entire religion is a joke. Their religion is merely a weak excuse to be as self-pleasing, self-centered and selfish as possible, without any actual want for enlightenment or occultic wisdom.
It is a weak religion for weak-minded individuals who consider themselves stronger than Christians, but who truly aren't any better at all.
Selfishness and excessive hedonistic tendencies does NOT bring about enlightenment, although I doubt that Laveyans care nor have any want to receive intelligence or enlightenment anyway.

I despise them.

On some level I agree, but the point I've tried to make throughout is *If* Satan doesn't exist then the whole argument is pointless, which was the original point made in post#1 that a real Satanist believes in a real Satan, if a real satan doesn't exist then no amount of belief makes the supposed "Real" satanist anymore genuine then a "Satanist" who simply acts how they believe Satan would regarding purely material matters.

But this behaving as "Satan" is in fact more dennis wheatley imo then based on mythology, unless we conclude that Satan is "God of this world" and therefore purely about all that is carnal/material. Personally I'm more interested in transcendence (though of course I have a big interest in the carnal) which mythologically we can see in the Serpent in the Garden and in the Book of Enoch as the passing on of forbiddon knowledge etc. So I would agree hedonism doesn't bring about enlightenment/transcendence.

Originally Posted by MrK

So you are saying that the only way to be a real christian, Muslim and so on is to not have faith since none of it can be proven? Do you even realize how stupid that argument is?

As I have already stated *sigh* the abrahamic religions have texts that are apparently the word of god, they have prophets etc etc theose religions are founded on faith and quite frankly fantasy. Satanism isn't Comparing those religions with Satanism doesn't make sense (and since when was the topic Christianity/Islam?). Satanism has no such ancient inspired texts (if anyone say's the al jilwah I will laugh in your face), no prophets. It has nothing written by Satanists about Satanism to create a definiton from until LaVey. Any definition was created based on what "Satanists" were believed to do. On that basis Satanists should be sacrifing babies etc because that is traditionally what Satanists were believed to do!

And as you state none of it can be proven, so how can you argue a LaVeyan can't be called a Satanist simply because they don't have faith in something that may or may not exist? As i've stated previously a Satanist should challenge any belief athiestic or theistic, so in my view "Faith" does not a Satanist make!

Anyway this debate is going nowhere so unless someone comes up with anything other then "Faith" and dictionary definitons then I decline to comment further.

Originally Posted by MrK

Wrong again a Satanists text is called the bible same sources as Christianity. What you present is your own opinion that has no bearing. What I present is an established definition of what Satanism is. You are contradicting your self. If you accept that Christians and so on can not be atheists then by default you agree to the same thing regarding Satanists.

What utter nonsense!

No, Laveyan Satanists are not true Satanists, nor should they have the honour of using Satan's name. In my opinion, they are false, weak and selfish atheists who simply like the idea of appearing dark, 'evil' or anti-Christian. Their 'religion' is merely a weak excuse to be self-serving and hedonistic.
They polute and defile the name of Satan as well as any other Left Hand Paths.

DEATH TO THE FALSE!

Please read the thread, before other posts are made, all the arguments have been made numerous times. In fact, all the arguments relevant to the topic at hand were made in the first page, and that was a huge amount of time ago.

Originally Posted by MrK

I understand that you do not have anything else to say Thought you said you wouldn't comment further at all. People usually say that when they know they are wrong.

I had nothing further to say because all that could be said has been said over and over again, not because I think I'm wrong....my what delusional thinking!