Thread: How much of Old Craft Is Present In Wicca, If Any?

Does the Wiccan religion actually contain anything from the actual Old forms of paganism and witchcraft practiced for hundreds of years before now? Or does it just claim to? Traditional Witchcraft and Wicca seem almost nothing alike.
For example, did Traditional witches ever do their rituals naked? Or is this something totally new?

Traditional witchcraft has nothing to do with Wicca. Wicca does often try to imitate it, but the best it can achieve is a copy of an imitation. Witchcraft was never meant to be exploited in that way, and hopefully never will be.

Not really. Wicca is basicaly just neo-pagansim. I wnet to the UK and met pagans and witches over there... in 'celt country' you might say, and was not very surprised to find that we over here have been doing things a bit backwards in comparison to their practices. The whole 'calling of the watchtowers' thing is something Gardner had taken from the Golden Dawn, not from pagan practice. In celt paganism there are 'the four treasures' which can be used as symbols for the directions and elements, but doesn't have to be. Their elemental directions are not the same as those practiced by neo-pagans over here either.

If you want to find real witchcraft, you must go to the practitioners of witchcraft, not resort to reading the new age stuff that bookshleves are overflowing with. There are some good books on strega witchcraft, but once again, don't look for gold in shelves full of lead. The whole naked bit came with the new age movement at the tail end of the feminist in the late 60's, a time in which wicca got it's first boost of empowered women who were tired of male dominated religions. I don't know if ancient witches celebrated naked for sure - there was propagandah to that effect during the Inquisition days, but then they said they flew on pitchforks and brooms through the sky as well.

If the witches back then did it or not, there is no way to tell as they never really wrote things down for fear of compromising the sacredness of their magic as well as fear of having solid evidence against them if the church officials caught them. Fertillity was a strong motif in magic back then, but that was again paganism and not witchcraft per se.

Er, Wicca and witchcraft where once one and the same, though wicca had no name back then.

Please research HOW Gardner created wicca - by introducing judeo-christian ceremonial methods, practices of the Golden Dawn, the Masonic order, and bit and pieces of survivng celt tradions to form his religion. For one of many concurrances, check out Owen Davies "Grimoires-A history of magic books". in which he discussed how Gardner pieced these things together for his first book to promote wicca itself. Then research witchcraft through athropology - not your Llewellens new ge books, and you will find the historical truth. Wicca is a modern creation, despite the meaning of the word itself. It was merely a word, not a religion. There are hundreds of such words relating to the hidden knowedges present in those days, none of them a religion.

Gardner modernized the ancient religion. He brought, slightly changed it, but otherwise just published it.

Gardner did no such. Wicca is not witchcraft, even Bonewits and other's within the church of wicca say this. You need to actually research a little. Do something other than just disagree.

Wicca was taken, and evovled, from a nameless nature religion. It, like most religions, then absorbed a couple of outside ideas/ symbols/etc, and, vioula, Wicca is born.

But witchcraft is not and does not conform to outside influences, nor is it necessary to believe in the God/Goddess deities to practice witchcraft. Witchcraft is much much older. Gardner created wicca in 1950, witchcraft was born in the caves of early man. Evidence of it in cave paintings still exist as mute witnesses to the practice of this craft before the days of recorded history. Witchcraft contains none of the things found in wicca. Wicca is formed in imitation of witchcraft - and I do not say this as an insult, or as a bad thing - but it is nothing like nor will ever be anything like actual witchcraft. Witchcraft varies from culture to culture, but at it's core is the same no matter where you go, or what country you may experience it in. It needs nothing 'added' to make it whole. It is a much stronger, deeper vibe than wicca. Wicca is very much on the surface, and will most likely stay on that level, unless the recreationsts and paleo-practitioners within that movement can successfully move the religion in the right direction to make it possible.

I would say that the two are very similar to the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. Christianity still follows the old testament, but much of what happens in the Gospel and the New Testament completely changes the way that they interpret it. Similarly Witchcraft is more of a 'discipline' i would say, than a religion. Wicca incorporates many aspects of Witchcraft, however Wicca as a religion is vastly different. Just because a man believes in atoms, for example, doesn't mean that he must be a scientist. As far as 'Naked Rituals' I can think of a couple that happened long before the 60's and feminism. The Lupercalia, for example, when mostly naked man ran about through Rome whipping women to make them fertile, or virtually any rite used to honor Bacchus. So try not to think of Wicca as some bastardization, because its not (And I would call myself unbiased, as I am most certainly no Wiccan). It is a religion borne of insight, powerful and ancient symbolism, and a sprinkling of Witchcraft and Folk Magic practices.

Wicca has nothing to do with ancient whitchcraft , I agree.