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Thread: Hypothetical Situation

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    Default Hypothetical Situation

    What if an Angel or Demon got trapped in a person's body for a significant amount of time? Let's say 10 years. The owner of the body is gone and there is just the entity left, pretty much left to do whatever. The entity is rendered powerless however in a body, so it is not able to leave on its own. How would you release it? Would the body have to die to release it? Also what would you do in a situation like this if you happened upon it?

    Of course this is theory based. So anything is welcome. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclestia View Post
    What if an Angel or Demon got trapped in a person's body for a significant amount of time? Let's say 10 years. The owner of the body is gone and there is just the entity left, pretty much left to do whatever. The entity is rendered powerless however in a body, so it is not able to leave on its own. How would you release it? Would the body have to die to release it? Also what would you do in a situation like this if you happened upon it?

    Of course this is theory based. So anything is welcome. Thanks.
    Based on these circumstances, as you describe them, I would attempt to make a deal with the entity before I even consider releasing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iza View Post
    releasing what? have we all gone mad?
    I presume the OP is referring to releasing the angel or demon, based on the hypothetical question. The OP wasn't asking for possibilities based on any other reality than that which the question supposed.

    Unless it was a rather clumsy way of asking for an answer like you have already provided. Though it read more like a personality test to me.

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    Default

    It is more of a personality question. I know that it is not possible, I was simply wondering peoples methods of doing things. Testing the waters to know members responses so I can see which I identify most to, if that makes sense.

    Although I am under the assumption that spirits can enter bodies for moments and I have witnessed and experienced it. I think of angels and demons as just regular spirits with different characteristics.

    Sorry if I was a bit vague with the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclestia View Post
    It is more of a personality question. I know that it is not possible, I was simply wondering peoples methods of doing things. Testing the waters to know members responses so I can see which I identify most to, if that makes sense.

    Although I am under the assumption that spirits can enter bodies for moments and I have witnessed and experienced it. I think of angels and demons as just regular spirits with different characteristics.

    Sorry if I was a bit vague with the situation.
    Makes sense. And Iza's point raises another interesting question.

    If maybe a spirit can be trapped within a body if it is covered in the correct sigils - much as any vessel in which one might trap spirits; such as with Solomon's brass vessel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iza View Post
    there is no such thing as a demon possessing a body or being trapped. they will latch on but can not enter, and the demons are usually of the ID, and are not the physical. i sometimes wonder where people get these notions.
    No attempt to cut my own throat by disagreeing with an admin, but I feel that this is an unfair assumption.

    I mean, this is a site for multiple religious POVs. Catholics believe firmly in the ability of a demon to physically possess someone. Catholicism is a legitimate religion. Of course, you won't find very many Catholics on an Occult forum (except for perhaps a fourteen year old troll trying to save us all), but as it's a legitimate religion and it has that belief, I feel that's a belief that should not be scoffed at because it's different.

    Hell, I know we have Wiccans on this site and I could write pages and pages against that.

    Don't hurt me, just wanted to get that thought out.

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    Dajai,
    Good point, I was wondering when a fellow forumite would bring Solomon into the mix. I wear a silver ring on my left hand for the control of Daemons. I find a lot of Goetic influence makes sense when dealing with demonic and angelic entities.

    All,
    I wonder how the claim is viewed by the extant list that demons do not enter the human vessel when clearly there is enough examples, theory or personal experiences that offer a juxtaposed point of opinion.

    just a few,
    1) Jesus was confronted by his disciples who claimed that there was a man casting 'out' demons. in Jesus's name The question is if they where being cast out then should we assume that they were 'inside' ?

    2) Ishtar went into the underworld (chthonic realm) to speak with her sister. It is seen by many that this realm she entered was her own inner realm. For her to then be able to speak and meet her sister (possibly her inner daemon) we must assume that yet another demonic aspect is within the body.

    3) It is not only the Catholic church that sanctions exorcism, if the demon is not within then why bother with chucking it out.

    4) Many recension's make mention of the ritual of wedding with the inner daemon. By inner I assume that this entity is within and not without.

    5) Further speculation vis' the Egyptian jed (spine) and the Hebraic tree of life should make us think of the daemon within. If the tree is but a metaphor for the spine (Egyptian jed) then one must assume that the primal demon spake unto our primal parents from within.

    6) I believe that Azura/ Choronzon are demonic keepers of the gate. If this is so then the question is where is the gate ?. If like me, and many,many others, you see the gate as part of our inner and deepest psyche then demons must by virtue have a place within our self as well as outside. Even the triangle of manifestation is but a screen by which to allow us to view that which is within.

    7) if the One True God is the sum of cosmic consiousness then the cosmos must be the body of the One True God. Was not Azazel evicted from the body of the One True God ? If this may be seen as possible then the axiom of 'as above, so bellow' yet again must be thought about. If man may be viewed as a microcosmic aspect of the One True God then we are also able to have within us that which is able to be expelled from within.

    I do not deny any their views regarding this but I feel that to say that demons do not reside within us is a thing of nowt without indicating why such a finite statement has been laid before this list.

    Regards,
    Ahrazura

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    Default

    Very good points, Ahrazura! Thanks for posting Even though I own the Goetia, I haven't dug through it fully enough to know whether or not the demons in it could enter a body.

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    In that situation, basing it off what i think I know, I personally think the demon/angel could be exorcised. However, would you really want too? If the person is gone for good, all that's left will be a shell...

    And I do believe that once the body perished, the entity would be freed.

    As for what I would do, that depends on the nature of the entity, and the situation. The entity is trapped, but is it unhappy? Is it a destructive entity? How well/how close am I too this person? etc.

    If I did decide to release it, I would probably use Goetic tecniques (sp), and command it out. But I'm still a newbie, so I should probably stop talking about that before I say something idiotic lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahrazura View Post
    Dajai,
    Good point, I was wondering when a fellow forumite would bring Solomon into the mix. I wear a silver ring on my left hand for the control of Daemons. I find a lot of Goetic influence makes sense when dealing with demonic and angelic entities.

    All,
    I wonder how the claim is viewed by the extant list that demons do not enter the human vessel when clearly there is enough examples, theory or personal experiences that offer a juxtaposed point of opinion.

    just a few,
    1) Jesus was confronted by his disciples who claimed that there was a man casting 'out' demons. in Jesus's name The question is if they where being cast out then should we assume that they were 'inside' ?

    2) Ishtar went into the underworld (chthonic realm) to speak with her sister. It is seen by many that this realm she entered was her own inner realm. For her to then be able to speak and meet her sister (possibly her inner daemon) we must assume that yet another demonic aspect is within the body.

    3) It is not only the Catholic church that sanctions exorcism, if the demon is not within then why bother with chucking it out.

    4) Many recension's make mention of the ritual of wedding with the inner daemon. By inner I assume that this entity is within and not without.

    5) Further speculation vis' the Egyptian jed (spine) and the Hebraic tree of life should make us think of the daemon within. If the tree is but a metaphor for the spine (Egyptian jed) then one must assume that the primal demon spake unto our primal parents from within.

    6) I believe that Azura/ Choronzon are demonic keepers of the gate. If this is so then the question is where is the gate ?. If like me, and many,many others, you see the gate as part of our inner and deepest psyche then demons must by virtue have a place within our self as well as outside. Even the triangle of manifestation is but a screen by which to allow us to view that which is within.

    7) if the One True God is the sum of cosmic consiousness then the cosmos must be the body of the One True God. Was not Azazel evicted from the body of the One True God ? If this may be seen as possible then the axiom of 'as above, so bellow' yet again must be thought about. If man may be viewed as a microcosmic aspect of the One True God then we are also able to have within us that which is able to be expelled from within.

    I do not deny any their views regarding this but I feel that to say that demons do not reside within us is a thing of nowt without indicating why such a finite statement has been laid before this list.

    Regards,
    Ahrazura
    Some excellent points there, Ahrazura.

    There are occultists who equate Goetic demons to Jungian archetypes and Crowley seemed to indicate a similar understanding within the fore-notes to the Goetia - being that change within the self can be viewed as the origin of magickal change. This would certainly support demonic entities as being necessary components of the psyche.

    This perspective would beg the question, "Why need to release?" or "Would such remain?" Collectively, maybe. Now we're crossing over to more necromantic thought: Maybe that, communication with the 'dead' is a vital component for some individuals; that is - The only way such people can get in touch with these parts of their own psyche is through association with a deep and primal, external connection to a dead object. Object; as in the psychodynamic definition of such.

    From this I would conclude that the reality of the conundrum has to be based on individual psychology rather than one blanket answer. It may seem logical but I think this gives a little more reason to arrive at such a position - which seems to be one of the first principals of many occult doctrines: There is no truth.

    Another way of contemplating this might involve looking at the etymology of the word "demon" - which links to principals of "genius" and therefore to thought.

    These factors tie in with my personal understanding; that demons might be used to convey thought . . and indeed, that I could be employing such now in order that I might be understood in some way. That it was by the beacon I lit in mentioning Solomon's Brass Vessel which sparked such insightful reactionary notions from Ahrazura.

    Wonderful, thought provoking topic, Euclestia.

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