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Thread: Do as Thou Will

  1. #1
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    Default Do as Thou Will

    "That it harm none, do as ye will," can you think of a more perfect law that everyone on earth should abide by? Remember to say that the next time you feel on trial because of your paganism.

    But wait, something is not quite what it seems. Ideally we should not even have to be told "harm none." why do you think that is so? And yet we have black and white magick, all in accordance with duality and infinity (my supreme god principles) as to be expected.

    "Do as thou will" is a principle of freedom and creativity. As such, it is the right of all who embrace it. If you use that freedom to impede the freedom of another then it becomes a subjective principle, and thereby meaningless. Just another lie by which to get what one wants.

    So you see "harm none" is sort of like training wheels for the philosophically challenged. It's like a "don't step on the grass sign," And it probably causes more people to spitefully step on the grass when they see it, then it does to keep them away. In life there are a lot of things that work in ways opposite then we expect...

    Now let's get to the deeper stuff...

    "Do as you will and harm none," is better then "love one another." It's more univeral, effective, and balanced. The violation of this law is what I consider to be the real meaning of the fruits of the knowledge of good and evil.

    Scenario: we have three people together. One of them feels moved to praise the sun perhaps as a deity. Another worships the stone. The third one doesn't worship anything. Then someone comes along offering to teach them of "good and evil." Next thing you know the man who worships the sun is arguing with the man who worships the rock, and the "holy crusader" comes along and kills both of them.

    You see here we have imbalance. From a place where things just were beautiful expressions of infinity to a world of violence. Why up until a few hundred years ago people owned people of a different color as slaves. Society felt it was "righteous" and "good" but the result was evil. It's a trampoline effect that nature will try to balance itself. The overzealous crusader is trying to be "good" but achieves "evil" as a result. I imagine it works the other way too somehow.

    So there you have it. Violation of "do as you will and harm none," and by principle "do as you will (as opposed to do this or not in the name of God) leads to destruction. All are part of the greater truth and entitled to freedom. If you harm one of us you harm all of us, so to harm another is to harm yourself.


    Oh getting back to how this relates to black and white Magick. One may argue then that a difference exists between the subjective and objective just as in how one regards "do as you will." Perhaps revenge and darker spells of the like are of the subjective as opposed to the objective will.

    I see it as more of a cultural thing. Wicca appears to me much as the feminine form of Paganism. I knew a Wiccan who was real into womens rights... Well needless to say she wasn't pleased to here that male black witches who can do as they please and female white witches who must harm none is similar to the old days in which men had the ruling power.

    Magick is neither black nor white to me. Division is foolish, however Duality in the purest sense of the positive and negative should be worked with in all things.

    Some speak of oneness and critisize duality as some sort of trap. Really it is everything we are and everything we do. Every from a point of oneness where all of us make up the body of God and are a connected single entity, there is still the void, nothingness, emptiness, lonliness to be counted.

    darkness and light are a primal duality, but a paradox is resolved when you realize that both sides are the same. Both darkness and light on their own are blinding. The trick is in understanding that darkness exists to amplify light so that it shines.

    Another example is eat when you are hungry. If we eat every second of the day bad things will happen. "Not eating" is a negative action. It's bitter. It's not fun. But after a while of not eating when we do eat its a lot tastier and more fulfilling then if we had just kept eating all day.

    "Paradise" is not about not having any negativity, its about expert ways in which it is managed and controlled."
    "From Negative to Positive, through Potential Existence, eternally vibrates the Divine Absolute of the Hidden Unity of processional form masked in
    the Eternal Abyss of the Unknowable, the synthetical hieroglyph of an illimitable pastless futureless PRESENT." —S. L. Mathers

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    Default

    amen brother.
    Man is invited to question, discover, explore,
    and manipulate the world around him and use it for his benefit.

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    Default

    I fancy doing a bit of philosophical analysis here since someone else has done all the hard work of laying out their views.

    Err... do as you will .....
    If you had the power you may do almost anything, so first you would need your will to be directed by some purpose and tempered by discipline and knowledge, and the appreciation of the needs of others, because although you don't obviously harm them , we live with other people and we influence them and effect them. In fact this idea is opposed by the group need for you to give up your personal will and desire for the collective will and some would say that the needs of the group are more important then the needs of the individual.

    So... I'm not sure that this idea of ' Do as you will ' is really perfect but rather it only covers half , at the most of the equation of living and the other half would be do as other people would have you do, be it the family, the friends, the workplace, the tribe ,the nation, all these may have equally valid demands on what you may do.
    It maybe cited as occult law that you should do as you will as opposed to ordinary life, but there are some powerful occult forces in the groups i mentioned and also . when you get involved with other powers in the occult, summoning and communing and such which i have done some of, then that also may discover that what you have summoned may require you to give up your will to it.

    So i think the idea of 'do as you will' has some point to it but it only states the case of how that works in practice in a very partial way , i wonder if other people find my views totally off track or not since i have never before been so bold as to disagree with this stated 'law' ??

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    Default

    Do as Thou Will?
    That it harm none, do as ye will?
    - where exactly are these statements from?


    Crowley coined "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"
    And this is from the Wiccan Rede "Ãn it harm none, do as ye will"

    In any case, the Thelemic "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" means to do of Your own Will and not the Will of another.

    And of course the Neo-Pagan statement is part of the moral obligations / oaths taken in the Wiccan religion.
    Magus III°
    Ordo Luciferi
    www.tarkhem.com

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    Default

    To correct myself i should have written either; Do what ye will , or Do as thou will or wilt.

    Anyhow the point i'm trying to make is how does that work out to be a law of doing magic i suppose.

    Err... to paraphrase, Do as thou wilt, does it not mean; to stamp your will on all about you in despite of everyone else and what they want, and to deny all other laws of ethics or morals or sanity or social mores or cultural codes of all kinds, to be some kind of
    ' towering rampant will of dominance upon everything else ' by overcoming everything else and stamping your will on it, to have things your way and overcome everything that would deny you including all laws of right and wrong. And use or misuse any power or connection or symbolic or numerological or sympathetic or other knowledge device in any manner as a weapon if you need to win.

    Something like that i wonder. ( without going in to detail because circumstances vary) ,to make yourself known and heard in the realms of the occult and astral. ????

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    Default

    be aware and make your own choices, dont be a slave to anything.

    magic is all about will, as is everything else. without will the would be no being, and no doing; there would be nothing.

    at least thats my take on it.
    Last edited by zero; 10-27-2010 at 12:12 AM.
    Man is invited to question, discover, explore,
    and manipulate the world around him and use it for his benefit.

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    Default

    Thats a good answer; and it's good to have a strong will. If the sides are evenly balanced then it all comes down to who wants it badly enough...

    With tools and alters and symbols one formalizes their intent to the universe. This intent gains nothing from the skeptic who reasons that nothing will happen. Worry must be answered with defeat or their will be strife, so settle for detachment and disappointment. There is only the artist and the temperance of a well refined work. This too is a great manifestation of will.

    In other words I find it useful to employ a paradox in my dealings. On one hand I have to want something so badly that I know it absolutely must happen to the point that I can barely imagine living in a world where it doesn't happen. On the other hand I find that being completely detached from the outcome is also needed. Maybe it's just the way that a Gemini needs to do it.

    Lastly I apologize to everyone who felt "this is just what I know." It is said when we teach others we are actually teaching ourselves. To be honest my best talents are in philosophy, perception, and creative imagination, and it find it interesting to consider all the different ways you can look at something like this.
    Last edited by Phaedron; 10-27-2010 at 09:34 AM.
    "From Negative to Positive, through Potential Existence, eternally vibrates the Divine Absolute of the Hidden Unity of processional form masked in
    the Eternal Abyss of the Unknowable, the synthetical hieroglyph of an illimitable pastless futureless PRESENT." —S. L. Mathers

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    I see it as a statement of the LHP, not necessarily concerning anything magickal

    Thy Will Be Done - to do god's Will
    My Will Be Done - to act upon with your own Will
    Magus III°
    Ordo Luciferi
    www.tarkhem.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by EtuMalku View Post
    I see it as a statement of the LHP, not necessarily concerning anything magickal

    Thy Will Be Done - to do god's Will
    My Will Be Done - to act upon with your own Will


    Yes, that is my understanding too...

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    ''Do as thou wilt'' from a LHP perspective means exactly what you said.

    However Crowley had double meanings to this text
    One of it was to find one's Will and then do it with a one pointedness and detachment. This leads back to the hindu concept of Dharma (destiny).
    (Liber II Message of the Master Therion).

    In Liber Oz, Crowley attempts to make ''Do What Thou Wilt'' into something that is universal such as the golden rule or ''an it harm none, do what ye will''
    except he actually states it in a much more empowering matter.

    -There is no god but man.

    1. Man has the right to live by his own law--
    to live in the way that he wills to do:
    to work as he will:
    to play as he will:
    to rest as he will:
    to die when and how he will.
    2. Man has the right to eat what he will:
    to drink what he will:
    to dwell where he will:
    to move as he will on the face of the earth.
    3. Man has the right to think what he will:
    to speak what he will:
    to write what he will:
    to draw, paint, carve, etch, mould, build as he will:
    to dress as he will.
    4. Man has the right to love as he will:--
    "take your fill and will of love as ye will,
    when, where, and with whom ye will." --AL. I. 51
    5. Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights.
    "the slaves shall serve." --AL. II. 58

    "Love is the law, love under will." - All of this reminds me of everything said by ''An it harm none, do what ye will''... except Crowley tends to be a bit more cruel in the concept of breaking this Law. There is no ''karmic or mystical hand'' that is said to punish us either because we are the only gods.

    From a LHP perspective, they do what they will. However, in a RHP perspective, the Will is atoned with that of the universe... thus the one pointedness and detachment from the lust of result.

    Wicca comes from Paganism. Wicca though is a fertility religion and Paganism is a religion that worships nature. ''An it harm none, do what ye will'' is wiccan. Not trying to start an argument just showing the facts.

    To take this a step further, Crowley and Gardner were actually supposed to have spoken to each other and looked through each others' book of shadows.

    There is proof that Wicca is actually older than it is and stems from a time period when the roman empire was first beginning to take over Italy... but the idea of ''karma'' and ''An it harm none, do what ye will'' was not believed by the Strega of Old. They more followed the law of Nature being Lex Talionis - An Eye for an Eye.
    Those who Fall will find their Heaven
    and will always be adored.


    In Plaudo Atri Matris!

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