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Thread: An Exit and Warning

  1. #1
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    Default An Exit and Warning (& RETURN)

    Edit: this was from a ways back. Makes sense of my next post.

    Note: wasn't sure if this should go in the introductions section, so I put it here. Mods can move it if they wish.

    I am leaving the occult and, consequently, this website. I no longer believe that occultism is compatible with Christianity. If you at all find the Christian worldview plausible, consider what I have to say.

    The Bible gives all manner of criticisms of magickal practice. I won't detail them here, but I will post some links: this gives passages against magick, this answers frequent arguments made by occultists. No support for magick can be found with these criticisms. The closest example might be the magi that visit Jesus in Matthew, but these were almost certainly wise men and astrologers, not full-blown magicians. Moreover, given they only occur in one Gospel, they are likely legendary. Surely one anomalous passage cannot overturn the weight of Scripture as a whole.

    Look at how most magicians end up. The greatest among them rest in ruins. Crowley claimed to have met his HGA, but he treated others horribly; several occultists have gone outright mad. At the very least the ego is blown out of proportion. Does magick seem like a reliable means of spiritual progress?

    Augustine argued against magick on the grounds that humans can be very easily deceived by the daemons they contact. Scripture supports this: demons masquerade as angels of light. How can one be so sure that one is not contacting a demon when performing a ritual rather than an angel?

    The rebuttal here is, of course, what about the magicians who turned out alright and why would angels do so little to harm us if demons. To this I say that these magicians - the very few there are - are still being deceived and that some demons seem to help the magician so as to entice the magician further into the depths of magick. It is much harder to leave the occult once one has been fully sucked into it.

    These magicians are deceived because alchemy does not rest in secret rituals but moral actions. The surest route to spiritual improvement lies in worship, religious study, faith, and perseverance in doing good. There is nothing mysterious about it, it just lacks flaring aesthetics.

    In all of this, I am not denying the power of magick. I am only doubting its source and its usefulness. It bloats the ego and can lead to mental breakdowns. No amount of outer grade work is sufficient to prevent this, and none of the results of magick are significant enough for this risk. I rest my case.
    Last edited by One and Only...; 08-12-2009 at 05:48 AM.
    "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness." - 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

    "Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person... has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow." - Colossians 2:18-19

  2. #2
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    I've decided to return to occult forums. On reflection, I think a case can be made that the biblical magi really did practice magic arts. In addition, the prohibitions of magic in the Bible tend to connect it with three main areas: (a) familiar spirits, (b) divination, (c) mediumship. The overarching problem is idolatry. Diviners are portrayed in the NT, for example, as using demons to acquire knowledge. The witches of the OT were shamanesque figures, pacting with spirits to gain power.

    So, the question now seems to me: is there such a thing as non-idolatrous magic?

    It seems to me that magic done for good aims without the use of spirit pacts would satisfy the demand. As Jesus himself testifies in Mt 12:25-28:

    Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
    Of course, Christian magicians need not be using gifts of the Spirit in their operations. The point is only this: if magic is being used toward good purposes, it cannot rely on evil, for then evil would be defeating itself. Of course, one must remember that pacts can have long-term repercussions despite short-term gains...
    Last edited by One and Only...; 08-12-2009 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Typo
    "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness." - 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

    "Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person... has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow." - Colossians 2:18-19

  3. #3
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    Belphebe Guest

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    Welcome back.

  4. #4
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    Default

    I think you are to wound up in ideals to be an effective magician.
    You will constantly find yourself engaging in self sabotage by questioning every step of the way "Is this good or is this bad?" "What would Jesus do?"

    Good an evil are only human constructs. Whats good for a human? We have to eat something. How do we do it? We have to kill something. Good for us, not for them. The whole thing is just a blank slate, you are the one filling in whats good and whats bad.

    But then you have to keep in mind that these forces, once implanted in the mind, will constantly be try to win over one another. This isn't good or bad, but movement and change. You don't want harmony, nothing gets done with that, nothing new comes from it.

    Anyways, wasn't Jesus a wizard? Are we all not, the Son of God? The Daughter of God? From God, everything issues forth. Call God what you will, intone whatever name you will, it is the source, the universe, the all and the nothing. Alpha Omega. Not some old guy talking to tribal Jews so many years ago (unless that is what you are into).

    Try reading Jesus's words from a mystical stand point, from the view of a magus. He makes a hell of a lot more sense that way. Don't read anything Paul has to say, rubbish. And the OT ban on witches and the like was not unlike anything else the Jews banned. It was simply because it was not homogenous with their culture as they were on the war path devouring up pagan communities. I mean, even the Jews had Kaballah right?

    If you want Religion, fine, find it. If you want magick, you have to look for magick.
    Don't talk to familiars

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    Every action you take, before you question its ethics or morality, ask yourself this:

    What could possibly oppose God's Will?

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